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Disappointed in Brandy Station...
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TOPIC: Disappointed in Brandy Station...

Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #1

  • gbs
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I have never enjoyed cavalry in this game. To me it is the most unrealistic aspect of SOW. I just doesn't look right to me and I don't understand what is going on or what the basic tactics for cavalry use is. I thought it was used in the CW to detect enemy movements and raid and screen not fight. I'm disappointed because I always look forward to the next edition of this game and in this case i doubt I will buy and will have to wait for what is next.
I have the cavalry scenarios that are on east cavalry field and all that. I tried them, quit and never played them again. Shoot...
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by gbs.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #2

To each his own of course, but you won't know what your'e missing..

Keep in mind, it's not all cavalry. Several of the scenarios, you control all three arms. And what you describe about cavalry (mostly used for screening etc.) Brandy Station was the exception to the rule--a savage, bloody affair.

We are well aware that improvements were needed for the cavalry and they used to not be much fun to control.. That all changed in 1.6..

Plus, call me biased, but the new map will be worth the purchase alone.
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He possessed what a fellow soldier called "an unquenchable thirst for battle." - James I. Robertson on A.P. Hill
Next to a lost battle, nothing is so sad as a battle that has been won. - Arthur Wellesley

In remembrance: John "2nd Texas" Bonin (1977 - 2012)
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by Little Powell.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #3

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How does one play a cavalry scenario? what are the objectives? I wouldn't know where to start. We have some scenarios that have cavalry units but I just give them one of the standard orders and let the AI take over. The best thing they do is guard arty.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #4

For once I couldn't agree more. Boring, Boring.

I will probably buy the extension just for the maps but I doubt if I will even look at the scenarios. (J.T.Edwards forgive me, if you can.)

I would much rather have seen just an extended map pack this time for assorted foreign historical combat areas.

I this must be someone's revenge for letting Napoleon , Wellington etc. effectively and comprehensively hijack SOW in recent months.

A real thinking man's battle next time please ..... lots to choose from. Not a horsemeat slugfest.

Geoff Laver Late of Her Brirannic Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot
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Last words of Col Ingles commanding His Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot at Albuhera 1811

Marshal Beresford wrote in his despatch "Our dead, particularly the 57th Regiment,were lying as they fought in the ranks, every wound in front"

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #5

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Boy, you guys are tough!

You're going to hate our next title, WWI - Stalemate in the Trenches.



B
"Those in whose judgment I rely, tell me that I fought the battle splendidly and that it was a masterpiece of art.” - George McClellan to his wife describing the battle of Antietam
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by born2see.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #6

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I never played much of ECF and I wasn't a big cavalry fan, in early stage testing I didn't enjoy them at all.

BUT

The recent cavalry changes in 1.6 for Brandy have made playing cav alot more fun. I can honestly say that a few of the scenarios in this pack could be my favourite scenarios of all time. Plenty of movement on a big map, rapid marches - retreats - combined arms. I loved it.
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by con20or.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #7

Con20or wrote:
The recent cavalry changes in 1.6 for Brandy have made playing cav alot more fun. I can honestly say that a few of the scenarios in this pack could be my favourite scenarios of all time. Plenty of movement on a big map, rapid marches - retreats - combined arms. I loved it.

If SOW is going to be patched to do a passable job at combined arms warfare, that will be a very significant improvement. I certainly look forward to the release.
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #8

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Little Powell wrote:
But the new map will be worth the purchase alone.

LP , I seen the screenshot that was posted on the other forum, YES , I agree you have created some very good ground textures.

davinci
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Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by Davinci.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #9

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I agree with folks who aren't excited about this upcoming game.

This could be the very first title since Mad Minute Games was released a few years ago that I won't buy.

The Gettysburg cavalry scenarios are not that interesting and I'm sceptical that Brandy Station will be any better.

Why are you designers so dead set against publishing any games set in the West?
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by conjotter.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #10

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Marching Thru Georgia wrote:

If SOW is going to be patched to do a passable job at combined arms warfare, that will be a very significant improvement. I certainly look forward to the release.


Wouldn't like to mislead you, I was referring to the cavalry fixes in 1.6, my reference to combined arms was about the scenarios.

But honestly, this map-pack was a blast - I loved it.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #11

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Wouldn't like to mislead you, I was referring to the cavalry fixes in 1.6, my reference to combined arms was about the scenarios.


I looked at the listed new features in the beta 1.6 patch and it states that cavalry is no longer so quick to retreat when under fire. Is that it or is there something else?

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #12

Con20or wrote:
Wouldn't like to mislead you, I was referring to the cavalry fixes in 1.6, my reference to combined arms was about the scenarios.

Bummer. Can you tell us what cavalry improvements we can expect to see?
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #13

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gbs wrote:
I looked at the listed new features in the beta 1.6 patch and it states that cavalry is no longer so quick to retreat when under fire. Is that it or is there something else?


GBS,

You probably know that cavalry retreating too easily was one of the main obstacles to enjoying that type of gameplay. Probably why you don't play with cav. Now they hold their position better when under fire, so dismounted troops will be able to hold a proper line. They are more likely to charge when you want them too, so alot less frustrating. There may have been more tweaks, but as I said, this was what I needed to see as a player to start enjoying cavalry and lead to me having a great time with Brandy.

Marching Thru Georgia wrote:
Can you tell us what cavalry improvements we can expect to see?


MTG,

1.6 was the last patch, so you should already have them. Give ECF another go, see if it's improved your enjoyment any. Or try the burnsides bridge reb scenario in AN.
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by con20or.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #14

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As a player of the series since the first releases of bull run and TC2m, and having had the honor to be a part of the team who did the testing on BS, I can honestly tell you, that I was not very excited about cavalry engagement myself. However, having tested many of the scenarios, and having seen the improvements to the cavalry behavior first hand, I seriously believe you will be missing out if you do not play these scenarios. I enjoyed them very much (as much as any of the previous games/scenarios if not more), and found them to be very challenging.

Do yourself a favor and get this Brandy Station release, else you will truly be missing out on some very enjoyable and challenging game play. You won't be disappointed....as a matter of fact, I believe you will be praising it, and finding that you suddenly enjoy , very much, cavalry engagements
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #15

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I for one enjoy all of the maps that have been made. I will enjoy this next one of Brandy Station. We have rivers that need to be forded. Fleetwood Hill that needs to be defended. It looks like the terrain is going to be outstanding. With the cavalry, they will be used as mobile infantry, to get on the flanks and rear quickly. This is what I do with my horse soldiers. How soon do you think?
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #16

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A number of us have asked for a western battle. I think Chickamuanga would be an obvious choice. It is really a 3 day battle. Sides are comparatively even and the stakes were high for both sides. In it you would get at least 3 or maps as the battle moved towards the north with each day.

It is important that we support Norbsoft. He is the only one selling a product that is well tested. How many of us have spent precious time playing what was essential a beta version of a game from other game makers?

I'll get Brandy Station if it is only for the maps. Usually the maps alone are worth the purchase.

Let's support Norb because he does listen and almost always gives us what we want.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #17

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You're support is appreciated

A person with a username like NY Cavalry not getting excited about a cavalry battle?!?

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #18

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My GG Grandfathers fought with 2 different NY cavalry units. 1st NY Mounted Rifles and the 22nd NY cavalry. So I took the cavalry distinction. But who has ever seen a dead cavalryman?

Stay away from MP because SP will never be the same. The MP community doesn't fully utilize this game. I would like to play more historical scenarios, but there are not quite enough of us historical guys.

I like HITS, but I don't want to play HITS exclusively.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #19

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NY Cavalry wrote:
Usually the maps alone are worth the purchase.


+1

The new maps are what give MP play its longevity and freshness.

I agree on the other issue of supporting NSD, you may not buy this add-on, but of you don't will there be any more?
HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #20

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I started this thread. I still think cavalry was a strategic asset and I don't know how to begin a tactical battle (which SOW is) with cavalry. But.........I WILL BUY to support Norbsoft. That's all I have to say about that.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #21

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gbs wrote:
I WILL BUY to support Norbsoft. That's all I have to say about that.

+1
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #22

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Hmm a bit of a mixed reception - Brandy Station was strategically very important and led (or certainly contributed) to Lee's defeat at Gettysburg so I believe covering the battle is worthwhile - while I concede that the cavalry side of SOWG is maybe not the greatest it has improved considerably. The biggest seller of the game is the new maps which will be released with this and future add on's.

Personally I have always been fascinated with ACW cavalry and the personalities who fought in the cavalry JEB Stuart, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Turner Ashby, John Buford, Hugh Judson Kilpatrick and George A. Custer ...to name a few. I did a cavalry pack for TC2M with Brandy station and several other cavalry engagements and it was one of my most downloaded packs so there is interest out there (The most downloaded was my Vicksburg and Atlanta Campaigns )

Don't forget that the game does need to be looked at commercially by the NDS team and this add on will be a good revenue stream and some of that profit will be used for future expansions - I for one will be buying this
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Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by Zeke.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #23

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Instead of messing around with Cavalry, what about the long promised Jacksons Valley campaign!
It gets bypassed time again, what about the Seven days Campaign.............We need something new a linked Campaign series, with carry overs from one battle to the next.


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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #24

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I understand the trepidation of some players. To me, fighting cavalry has been like watching a timid cat go after a rooster. They advance until the opponent turns to face them then skedaddle for the nearest tree. (Please forgive the comparison if it seems strange. I've worked with animal rescue groups for years, and have actually seen this happen. Funny as hell.) Hopefully cavalry will have a little more resolution to go with their bravado.

Question: will the cavalry improvements be implemented as a patch for those who purchased previous titles? Or do they have to purchase Brandy Station to receive these improvements? I'll buy either way (you can always count on that), but others might have reservations.

Anyhow, I know folks are clamoring for another major battle (we all are). Nevertheless, the team recognized needed improvements in how cavalry is represented. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that they address it before heading into the next major battle. This is especially true as they delve into larger campaign-style battles where small cavalry engagements are frequent. And in the meantime, we get another map, some new scenarios, and an improved arm of the service master.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #25

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garyknowz wrote:
I understand the trepidation of some players. To me, fighting cavalry has been like watching a timid cat go after a rooster. They advance until the opponent turns to face them then skedaddle for the nearest tree. (Please forgive the comparison if it seems strange. I've worked with animal rescue groups for years, and have actually seen this happen. Funny as hell.) Hopefully cavalry will have a little more resolution to go with their bravado.

Question: will the cavalry improvements be implemented as a patch for those who purchased previous titles? Or do they have to purchase Brandy Station to receive these improvements? I'll buy either way (you can always count on that), but others might have reservations.

Anyhow, I know folks are clamoring for another major battle (we all are). Nevertheless, the team recognized needed improvements in how cavalry is represented. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that they address it before heading into the next major battle. This is especially true as they delve into larger campaign-style battles where small cavalry engagements are frequent. And in the meantime, we get another map, some new scenarios, and an improved arm of the service master.


I think the improvements to cavalry were implemented with the last patch of the game (1.6) the guys here are not that cynical as to hold back on what is a playability issue The SOWG guys are nice people and care about their users. The cavalry are certainly not as twitchy as they were when the game was released however there may be refinements in the Brandy Station release though - Oh for a day when we have a Horse holders Mod.... Now that would be cool!!
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Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by Zeke.

Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #26

Thats right; the improvements were in the 1.6 beta patch which will also be released by matrix as a standalone patch and also comes with Brandy Station.

OP - Are you still disappointed in Brandy Station? Maybe its time to change the thread title...
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He possessed what a fellow soldier called "an unquenchable thirst for battle." - James I. Robertson on A.P. Hill
Next to a lost battle, nothing is so sad as a battle that has been won. - Arthur Wellesley

In remembrance: John "2nd Texas" Bonin (1977 - 2012)
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by Little Powell.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #27

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So now it's time for Mad One (and Cavalry Guru) to address the minions:

Being the Cavalry guy, I've waited for this one for some time.....and damn happy I did.

Those of you that were/are disappointed; I do not know what to say.....except maybe you need to take some time and learn to use Cavalry!
Yes we all know that by the time of the WBTS, Cavalry were not the "Grognards" of the military as they once were in times past.

BUT! - since the days of TCCWBR/TC2M, one of the premises of this SIM has always been the "What if?" the "change History".... If you know HOW to use Cavalry, it can have a devastating effect.....not just scouting/raiding etc....

Many of you (indeed most that I've seen)) have proven yourselves fine and outstanding Commanders/Tacticians/Strategists in terms of Infantry and even Artillery...... so why do you slack when it comes to Cavalry?
Cavalry were the "tanks" and "air support" of the 19th Century! So learn Gentlemen.....take advantage of your tools of warfare. Yes, for the most part you have to TC the Cavalry for them to do precisely what you want....... which means "micro-managing".

If you can micro-manage your damn Infantry; then you can do it with your damn Cavalry as well!

Really.....if I were ever to have the good fortune to participate in MP and I had Stuart's Cavalry Corps against you Infantry hard-noses......best wrap up your window of denial boys because I'd have YOU wrapped up within 60-75 minutes.

But hey......for those who got Brandy just for the map......please enjoy

kindest regards

The Mad One
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #28

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I just want to thank Norb and the team for the nudge to explore cavalry more and the improvements made to make it worth it. I purchased BS with this in mind and after playing the first couple scenarios I find it both challenging and visually appealing. I then revisited the ECF scenarios which I haven't played in quite a while and enjoyed them much more than I recall before.

I've never had as much interest in cavalry during the ACW compared to the other arms, and this has led to some ignorance on my part, to it's value and tactical abilities. BS looks like it will have me playing cavalry and also giving impetus to study the historical engagements and tactics much more than I have.

I've been a student of the ACW since I was 12 years old (33 years ago) and there's a lot to digest and weed through to have a viable perception of it in all it's aspects. Who would think a game could become a tool to both learn and also peak curiosity into areas that I have neglected for too long, and entertain at the same time.

Thanks for your hard work, dedication and attention to detail that makes these games more than just games. I wish they would have been around in 1980.

Thanks again

Mike Edwards
Last Edit: 1 year, 3 months ago by modifish.
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Re: Disappointed in Brandy Station... 1 year, 3 months ago #29

Thanks Mike, glad you are enjoying Brandy Station and SOW overall. I too became a huge fan of cavalry when researching this expansion. Cavalrymen were the last true warriors of the idealized, romantic era of warfare. But don't let the romance fool you. Even though their primary duties in the Civil War were intelligence gathering, those guys were some of the bravest of the brave. It takes special courage to gallop full speed into a mass of saber wielding men causing the earth to literally tremble. It was said that JEB Stuart did not know the emotion of fear.

Thanks again and I hope everyone enjoys Brandy Station as much as we enjoyed making it.
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He possessed what a fellow soldier called "an unquenchable thirst for battle." - James I. Robertson on A.P. Hill
Next to a lost battle, nothing is so sad as a battle that has been won. - Arthur Wellesley

In remembrance: John "2nd Texas" Bonin (1977 - 2012)
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