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Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground
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Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #1

  • RebBugler
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Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground

Released for the 154th Anniversary (2017) of the Battle of Gettysburg, July 1st - 3rd, 1863.

Featuring:

- New Gettysburg map by MarkT (9 Mile)
- Two 'Three Days in 8 1/2 Hours' Full Battle Scenarios
1) Gettysburg 3Days, New Ground (C-Army)
2) Gettysburg 3Days, New Ground (U-Army) INFO
- Fatigue and Morale replenished at the end of Days one and two
- Upgraded setup and scripting from the previous 3Days scenarios
- Richmond News end screens for CSA
- Optional scenario file (scenario - DRF.csv) to use flags from the B&F mod -- rename to scenario.csv in the individual scenario folder after renaming the original

Unzip and copy to the Mods folder (Unzips with 7zip, free download...)
Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


The bar is set!
MajorVictory.jpg


Well, it's been six years since the 'GB 3Days' scenarios were released and with the introduction of MarkT's outstanding nine mile map the time was ripe for an upgrade. And an UPGRADE it is! I've learned a lot in those six years, especially what works and what doesn't, on how to keep scenarios vibrant and immersive. At least I think so.

A heads up on performance. Due to the large number of troops, eventually, and with the huge map, low fps and lag are a fact of life with this old engine. The number one thing I have learned about performance and lag in general is to keep corps and general level officers TC'ed (this eliminates hundreds of AI-loops between officers that suck performance unnecessarily). You'll find in the scripting that these upper level officers will be TC on when introduced, I suggest they remain TC'ed and just move by divisions. If you don't, not only greater lag, but the occurrences of anomalies like troops stopping engaging are likely to occur. They literally stop fighting and will walk through or ignore the enemy. Or, if you insist on using these officers TC off, then better to raise the sprite ratio to at least 10 to one.

As announced and shown above, "The Bar is Set". The best way to show appreciation for this effort as far as I'm concerned is attack that Bar, display your end screen, and feedback about your experience and path to glory, or, how you messed up. All is good, and fun, in the remaking of history.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #2

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Reb - Great Job on getting this Map posted!

It is a truly remarkable Map!

Jumping Topic : What do You set your AI-Cycles on ?

I keep mine on ( 500 ) and the 200,000 plus units seem to all operate occurring to plan.

I think that I have approximately 99,000 and the enemy has approximately 129,000.

But, not all units are involved in the fighting at the same time.

*** Norb - mentioned years and years ago that if you set it too high the AI would think too much, but he really didn't explain what " Thinking Too Much " meant.

davinci
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #3

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Hi, is this game still going? I have not played in couple of years, anything new since then? How is Waterloo?

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #4

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Yes, game is still going. Norb released the map editor tools with the latest SDK so more people are map modding now. A bunch of us Napoleonic fans are doing map changes for Waterloo - converting Gettysburg/ACW maps to look European. Our group has about 4 done with 2 or 3 more in the works.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #5

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Davinci wrote:
Reb - Great Job on getting this Map posted!

It is a truly remarkable Map!

Jumping Topic : What do You set your AI-Cycles on ?

I keep mine on ( 500 ) and the 200,000 plus units seem to all operate occurring to plan.

I think that I have approximately 99,000 and the enemy has approximately 129,000.

But, not all units are involved in the fighting at the same time.

*** Norb - mentioned years and years ago that if you set it too high the AI would think too much, but he really didn't explain what " Thinking Too Much " meant.



davinci


I've never messed with the AI-Cycles numbers, the default setting is good by me. I assume you can 'dumb down' the AI with fewer cycles and save on performance but I prefer to TC corps commanders, thus eliminating cycles, thereby keeping the division and down officers' AI sharp.

" Thinking Too Much " is when the AI is overwhelmed by the number of cycles and begins shutting down. First indications of this overload are when troops 'Go Blind' as I mentioned in the first post.

Thanks for plugging the AI-Cycles info. I'm sure some folks will check it out and experiment, especially 'sandbox full army' type players like you.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #6

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RebBugler wrote:
I've never messed with the AI-Cycles numbers, the default setting is good by me.

Ten Four, Understand!

But, I wasn't setting it that high for Me, its to help the AI Army fight better.

Besides, I have never ever actually won a battle against the AI, it is impossible to destroy a larger Army without destroying your own army in turn.

davinci
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #7

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@ Reb Bugler ......... The Bar you say?

How quaint

The Mad One
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #8

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This is great.

Thank you for all the hard work.

Regards

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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #9

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hi, the game was a ton of fun, but I burned out on it- I was waiting for new battles- hoping for Chickamauga or Shiloh but we got Waterloo which I have not ventured to- I mainly play chess online now- chess.com is the best- enjoyed the history lesson of this game

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #10

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Chickamauga and Shiloh have both been released as free add-ons by the community, a Chattanooga map as well - you should stick around, lots still happening here.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 3 weeks ago #11

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Ok, cool, the add-ons are in the download section?

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 2 weeks ago #12

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RebBugler,

This, as usual is incredible. I am drained. What a superb job you did!

I took up the challenge to reach the bar. I didn't do it. I couldn't do it.

However, my final report says Difficulty Level 8. I see yours says Difficulty Level 3.

Soooooooooo, what's up?

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 2 weeks ago #13

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SwampRat wrote:
RebBugler,

This, as usual is incredible. I am drained. What a superb job you did!

I took up the challenge to reach the bar. I didn't do it. I couldn't do it.

However, my final report says Difficulty Level 8. I see yours says Difficulty Level 3.

Soooooooooo, what's up?

S


Difficulty Level 8 is Custom settings so I'm guessing that's equivalent to or above Normal, level 3 difficulty. The posting of the difficulty setting allows for folks to set their own bar on a different difficulty level, so start a Level 8 bar if you wish.

Very glad you enjoyed this scenario, yours is the first 'completed scenario' report so I'm assuming also that your rig handled this GRAND THEATER without a crash or AI burnout while maintaining the default sprite ratio of four to one.

A big thanks for this report!
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months, 2 weeks ago #14

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HI Reb,

Oh, I see. I know so little...

I didn't have any trouble but my machine did get slow a couple or three times. I followed your orders to the letter.

This is a work of art and you are the master. You were outstanding in the way the battle developed. I also liked the night. A lot. I just wish it lasted a little longer. Doing it straight through, I kinda got fatigued after hour six. I could have used a longer break! You put on one hell of a battle!!!!

There s nothing I didn't like. One thing was I found myself doing though was tending to the care and feeding of my artillery. I got down to commanding by battery - and wagon. There are a lot of batteries.

Excellent job. Thank you for all your hard work!

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 months ago #15

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SwampRat wrote:
HI Reb,

Oh, I see. I know so little...

I didn't have any trouble but my machine did get slow a couple or three times. I followed your orders to the letter.

This is a work of art and you are the master. You were outstanding in the way the battle developed. I also liked the night. A lot. I just wish it lasted a little longer. Doing it straight through, I kinda got fatigued after hour six. I could have used a longer break! You put on one hell of a battle!!!!

There s nothing I didn't like. One thing was I found myself doing though was tending to the care and feeding of my artillery. I got down to commanding by battery - and wagon. There are a lot of batteries.

Excellent job. Thank you for all your hard work!

S


Much Appreciated!

Ha, I got the numb hand also, after completing the first scenario the night before, I couldn't stop the next day and went six and a half hours straight to "set the bar".

Concerning the battery management, guess what, there's more. As I'm in the process of building the Union version, I'm finding errors in the Rebel version. One big miss was Walton's artillery corps. So, there's two CSA artillery divisions that will be added with a 'Coming Soon' update included with the addition of the Union version.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 2 weeks ago #16

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Update...Union Full Battle Scenario added
...also fixed some errors and made some minor changes to the CSA version

Although historically based, this USA scenario should prove to be more challenging than previous versions because the Rebel Army will not hesitate to attack the high ground south of Gettysburg toward the end of day one. If they are successful in taking Cemetery Hill and Culps Hill by early day two, Lee's strategy will change.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


Lutheran Seminary approach, day one...
LutherenSeminary1.jpg

LutherenSeminary2.jpg

LutherenSeminary3.jpg


Some battle shots...

Melee.jpg


Carnage.jpg


Spent weeks on this Rebel offensive, hopefully it will pay off by presenting a challenge for SOW's veteran generals. I have faith it'll stump the less experienced, at least for a while. It's designed historic initially, changing only toward the end of day one as the Rebels aggressively attack the high ground as warned in the 'Spoiler Alert'. Any student of the Battle of Gettysburg knows the Rebels don't stand a chance of victory if they launch their historic strategy. So, call this scenario what you will, I call it another strategy, if the player flounders and allows it to happen. Nevertheless, the Union has superior arms and troop numbers, and any SOW General worth their stars should be able to pull off a Major Victory regardless of Lee's strategy.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 2 weeks ago #17

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Thank you for making this RebBugler

I look forward to giving it a try.

Regards

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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #18

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Hi Reb,

I just downloaded and ran the US version of New Ground. It looks and plays great, but I happened to notice that Calef's battery is hidden at the beginning of the battle and never appears. I played through several hours of game time and he never showed up. Is this intentional? Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing some special rule regarding that battery.

Please let me know.

Thanks

Pete
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #19

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benway9 wrote:
Hi Reb,

I just downloaded and ran the US version of New Ground. It looks and plays great, but I happened to notice that Calef's battery is hidden at the beginning of the battle and never appears. I played through several hours of game time and he never showed up. Is this intentional? Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing some special rule regarding that battery.

Please let me know.

Thanks

Pete


That's a battlescript error, line 44 column 3 should read Ashowunit, not showunit, affecting Buford's division. Sorry about that! Hopefully you can fix that for fast replay but regardless I'll get an updated, fixed version up within the next hour.
Thanks for the report.

Edit: Done, updated with fix
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #20

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Thanks Reb. I just installed the new file and it appears the situation with Calef's battery has been resolved. However, I did notice two new issues, that I can only assume are related.

First of all, Devin's Brigade individual regiments are never "released", ie. they are never able to receive direct orders, they remain as they start the game. Devin is movable and his units will respond to his brigade orders, but they cannot be given any orders as separate regiments.

Secondly, the 3rd brigade of Buford's 1st Cavalry Division, Merritt's brigade, is now immediately available to accept orders at the beginning of the game. It's my understanding that they are normally scheduled to arrive at the field on either the 2nd or 3rd day.

I haven't gotten any further than this, if I notice anything else I'll let you know. I'm so far loving the new 3-Day scenario.

thanks Reb

Pete
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #21

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benway9 wrote:
Thanks Reb. I just installed the new file and it appears the situation with Calef's battery has been resolved. However, I did notice two new issues, that I can only assume are related.

First of all, Devin's Brigade individual regiments are never "released", ie. they are never able to receive direct orders, they remain as they start the game. Devin is movable and his units will respond to his brigade orders, but they cannot be given any orders as separate regiments.

Secondly, the 3rd brigade of Buford's 1st Cavalry Division, Merritt's brigade, is now immediately available to accept orders at the beginning of the game. It's my understanding that they are normally scheduled to arrive at the field on either the 2nd or 3rd day.

I haven't gotten any further than this, if I notice anything else I'll let you know. I'm so far loving the new 3-Day scenario.

thanks Reb

Pete


OK, fixed, tested and updated. Thank goodness this issue is near the beginning so I could do the test part in a timely manner. Don't understand the Devin issues you're reporting. To be clear on that brigade's scripting, it begins unavailable for orders, locked. Then, once any of Devin's regiments become engaged, the whole brigade becomes available for orders, unlocked. I just tested this out and it worked as designed.

You're a great help. I've gotta admit I didn't check the Union scripting as thoroughly as I should have as I primarily concentrated on making the Confederate offensive as formidable as possible...Blame my Rebel soul.

Glad you're enjoying the scenario. Besides fixes, any feedback for improvement is most welcome.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #22

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RebBuglar,

Oh man, you are da bomb!!!

I have just finished playing it through twice and would like to give some thoughts. I don’t want you to think I’m criticizing anything in any way. These are merely some thoughts on how it played out for me.

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time, energy and effort to make this wonderful game even better with this scenario!!! Your work is greatly appreciated!

That Reb assault is totally unbelievable! You outdid yourself and the result is simply magnificent. I have never experienced the level of anxiety in a game that I felt BOTH times I played it! I recommend to everybody to just play the scenario through the first day. It’s like the first 20 minutes of “Saving Private Ryan”. But in Blue and Gray.

I will try not to give any spoilers, just a general description of what I experienced.
Full disclosure, I started the game, but was so turned around in the first hour and a half or so that I had to stop and restart just to find out how I completely lost control of a battle that quickly.

On the second start, I saw how you tied me up so bad, and you’re a very sharp fellow. Finally able to get some semblance of control, I was able to barely, and I mean barely, hang on to both Cemetery and Culp’s Hills at the end of Day 1. But I lost them both in the first five minutes of the second day. The way that happened was very, very clever. I had enough troops in First and Eleventh Corps left to have made one brigade in each Corps.

Then weird stuff started happening. It was like I was watching the AI play itself and I was just gumming up the works. I think every gun in the ANV was placed just across from Cemetery Hill, and for some reason the Second Corps suddenly decided to collectively commit suicide. I tried pulling them back by using Hancock as Corps commander. I tried pulling them back by division. I tried pulling them back by brigade. Then I started mass retreat by regiment to get them out of the slaughter pen. By the time I did, the damage was done and I was at around -2600 points. I never felt a “lull” ! as the Reb guns never stopped firing. Later on day 2 the Third Corps was attacked and at one point I was down around -3500. But on day 3 Pickett was kind enough to march into a U shaped bowl of artillery and I finished at around 7500. Only one regiment of Kemper’s Brigade even made it to my rifle line.

An awesome game! Again much appreciated!

The second time I played it through after you had make an update and I had another Cav regiment and more importantly, a beautiful battery of 3 inch Ordinance Rifles. I held both Hills through day 1, but did end up losing Culp’s Hill at the start of day 2. Those additional guns made a huge difference! Holding Cemetery Hill, and watching Second Corps very closely, I was able to keep the Army under some little bit of control, but then strange stuff started happening with Third Corps. Humphrey’s entire division, HALF of Third Corps, (over which I had no control at the time), started marching toward the Reb guns and were actually engaged in combat 10 maybe 12 minutes or so before I was given control of Third Corps. By then of course my line was hopelessly out or order and half of Third Corps was already in action. LOL. I saw no opportunity to keep Sickles where he originally started. I pulled Fifth Corps up to replace Third Corps and they held till Sixth Corps and night came along. But Fifth and Third Corps got chewed up pretty bad. Again no “lull” as we had counter battery fire going on all of day 2 and 3. Pickett was dispensed with (but not as “efficiently” as the first time because I less time to set up an ambush – Third Corps spread all over the place) but Jeb Stuart did give me some trouble near the end of day 3. I ended up with a minor victory at about 13,600. I feel like having the battery of cav artillery at the start really helped make a difference.

Again, that first day and the beginning of the second day were totally awesome. A work of art! But as I mentioned, at times I felt like I was watching the AI play itself. Overall the experience was excellent. Well worth the time spent in playing it and I enjoyed both games very much. I think I will try it again for a third time and tinker with my strategy a bit just for fun.

The only drawback for me was after the first hour or so of the second day. It might have been because of the initial Reb assault, but I was left with a strange unfulfilled feeling. Like getting a big, long, hard hug from your cousin. Not the hot one, but the skinny one that looks like uncle Clyde.

Thanks again for this wonderful work of art!

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #23

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SwampRat

Once again you made my day with great feedback...Much Appreciated!

Much to elaborate on but I have a dental appointment in on hour, so later on that. In the meantime, hold off on another play because something is amiss by your report on the Third Corps. I've got to check out the scripting because it should be entirely unlocked well before the enemy makes contact. The same goes for all the player's troops...The player should never experience no control over his troops once they're engaged. In fact, the Third Corps should be unlocked well before engagement, so the player has the option to pull out of Sickle's infamous salient before Longstreet's Corps arrives.

Later...
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #24

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Hi RebBuglar,

Thanks for the reply.

I want to make it clear about Third Corps. I hope I was not too confusing.

Birney and the Arty stayed put and were released before the enemy made contact. But Humphreys' Division marched over toward Cemetery Hill and they engaged the enemy. After Humphreys' Division was engaged for 10 or 12 minutes is when I got control over all of the Third Corps. I don't know what was up with Humphreys' Division.

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #25

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Update, fixed the Third Corps control issue discussed above. Now Humphrey's division will be unlocked as soon as they appear moving down the road, ready for player orders.

SwampRat

You mentioned control problems also once the Rebels took Cemetery Hill early day two. Were these control problems due to locked troops? By that time point you should have full control of Hancock and Sykes Corps, let me know otherwise?

Thanks again for the feedback!
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #26

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RebBugler,

No I had control over both Corps. Sykes Corps (I think it was Fifth) I had no trouble controlling. But for Hancock's boys you know how hard it is to disengage troops once they are engaged. The problem was that Second Corps seemed to consider my orders suggestions and not orders. I had Hancock TC'ed back from the line on "Hold at all costs". But brigade after brigade just kept either still engaging the Rebs or marching toward them. I got each Division commander, moved them back and had them TC'ed and on "Hold at all costs", but that did not stop the behavior. I would get one brigade matching back toward the division commander, then find another brigade moving forward again. I would get them moving away only to find the original brigade trying to engage again. This happened to each division in Second Corps. I did the same process with each brigade commander. Despite orders or TC status, they seemed to want to engage those guns. It was almost like they were programed to move to engage. That's when I felt like I was watching the AI play itself and I was just getting in the way.

For those brigades actually in contact with the Reb guns, I went regiment by regiment and ordered "Retreat" repeatedly until I was able to move them back out of range of the Reb guns. As I was doing that I would find brigade after brigade from other divisions still moving toward the Rebs. I ended up "Retreating" most of the regiments in Second Corps before I got them under control.

In the second game. I moved Hancock well back from the gun line one day 1, and TC'ed each brigade as it was released or showed up on day 2, and manually moved them so as not to engage. In that way I was able to keep Second Corps where I wanted them later, but that's when Humphreys started North with his division.

I hope this is more clear. Sorry if I was confusing in the first post.

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #27

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Update, fixed a scripting error that alerts Union forces of a Rebel occupation of Cemetery Hill. This should have 'kicked in' and prevented Union forces from storming ahead to form their scripted positions, as witnessed and frustratedly discussed by SwampRat.

In addition, a MUST update because I screwed up with the last several updates and included a renamed battlescript file in the CSA version. I was working between versions and forgot to rename it back. So, if you open the CSA version you'll find both full armies ready for an endless battle, once they find each other.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #28

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Thanks so much RebBugler! And thanks again for your awesome work.

I'm gonna try them both again. I'll start by trying to reach (who am I fooling! ) or come close to the bar you set. It's a high bar!

I'll let you know.

Thanks again man!

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #29

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RebBuglar,

I have started the Confederate New Ground and I'm seeing some behavior I haven't seen before with my artillery. I am using all the mods I have always used, but I have not seen this before.

What is happening is that some guns in battery and even some full batteries are retreating for no apparent reason. And once they retreat I have trouble getting them back on the gun line as they retreat again as soon as they arrive at their position.

As an example, I have a battery I want to set up 700 yards from a Federal battery and 500 yards from some cavalry in line formation. As the four guns reach their position two set up and begin counter battery fire but two set up and then automatically retreat. This has also happened with entire batteries. The crews end up behind where I want them and exhausted.

I don't ever remember seeing this behavior unless I have accidentally set up a battery within 200 yards of enemy forces which I understand.

Is this something I have just missed before? Is 700 yards too close? I'm just curious to see if this is new and if anybody else is seeing it.

As usual, thanks!

S

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 month, 1 week ago #30

  • RebBugler
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SwampRat

From my experience this (not staying put) is normal artillery behavior, and they do tend to exhaust themselves if the battery commander is not TC'd. The orders 'Hold to the Last' work pretty well for keeping them in place, but TC'd officers is always best for full control.
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