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Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground
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TOPIC: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #31

  • SwampRat
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Thanks as always for the reply!

What I'm seeing is guns retreat (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last") even before they unlimber at distances from 400 to 800 yards.

I am also seeing about half retreat once on the gun line and unlimbered (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last").

Maybe I just never noticed before, but it makes an attack a frustrating thing.

Again, thanks RebBugler!

S

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #32

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SwampRat wrote:
Thanks as always for the reply!

What I'm seeing is guns retreat (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last") even before they unlimber at distances from 400 to 800 yards.

I am also seeing about half retreat once on the gun line and unlimbered (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last").

Maybe I just never noticed before, but it makes an attack a frustrating thing.

Again, thanks RebBugler!

S


Hey SwampRat, Im just wondering, have you checked the individual guns ammo supply? In SOW Waterloo not all artillery batteries are made up of the same kinds of guns, or have the same type or amount of ammo for the various types of ammo the guns require. I cant recall if its the same in SOW Gettysburg as I haven't played that game seriously since SOW Waterloo came out. But it might be worth looking into.

In SOW Waterloo if an individual gun does not have the required type of ammo for a given situation, or if its range is much more limited than other guns in the battery(such as the difference between say a Howitzer and a Napoleon)the individual gun may pull back from the firing line(not a rout, but a small retreat to the rear behind the battery)
Its possible you may have some sort of SOW Gettysburg equivalent going on. Im not sure though, its been a long time and my memory of how artillery batteries were made up in SOW Gettysburg is somewhat blurry. But it couldn't hurt to have a look.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #33

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SwampRat wrote:
Thanks as always for the reply!

What I'm seeing is guns retreat (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last") even before they unlimber at distances from 400 to 800 yards.

I am also seeing about half retreat once on the gun line and unlimbered (with officers TC'ed and "Hold to the last").

Maybe I just never noticed before, but it makes an attack a frustrating thing.

Again, thanks RebBugler!

S


Something's definitely amiss. Please relay the battery CO name and the approximate game time this 'gun retreat' issue occurs, I'll check it out. I'm assuming you're now going through the CSA version.

Don't think it's an ammo thing since the enemy is so far away, but thanks for the help DarkRob.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #34

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DarkRob,

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think it is a specific gun issue as I find all the gun types will retreat.

RebBugler,

It starts with the Third Corps Reserve Artillery, all batteries in Pegram's Battalion, from the start of the game. I move Heth forward, with the guns to the rear in support. As Heth moves forward I gradually move the batteries forward.

I find the guns begin retreating individually and by battery. Some will retreat without unlimbering as soon as they reach their assigned battery position.

I thought at first I was moving them too close to the Feds, but I find retreats at great distances from their lines.

I would greatly appreciate you looking into it, if for no other reason than to find what I might be doing wrong.

Thanks as always.

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #35

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I too have noticed the same exact behavior playing the USA scenario. I posted Calef's battery a little closer to the opening action between Gamble's brigade and the approaching rebs. Definitely not near enough to receive any fire or anything of the sort. All of a sudden, several of the guns just started a cycle of retreating as described by SwampRat. Not all of them at once, just a few at a time. They would retreat then stop for a second, then immediately retreat again. Then another gun would do the same thing, until it became the whole battery. One of them got so out of order that they started "retreating" towards the oncoming rebel infantry. I had to evenetually TC each gun and literally herd them back to the outskirts of town. But by that time, they were all so exhausted that they were out of the fighting for quite some time. I've never seen this type of thing before. Could it be an issue with the engine, or is this something that is scenario specific?

Perhaps there is something different I should be doing? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Pete
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #36

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Update 9/11/17

Very minor update that won't affect scoring or gameplay much at all. It addresses the artillery issue discussed above by keeping Artillery Corps CO Walker from moving Pegram's artillery division. This happens 90 minutes into the CSA scenario and hopefully resolves the 'batteries moving on their own' issue.

However, and a BIG however, I cannot explain nor resolve the report of guns moving about when the battery CO is TC'd. From my experience, this only happens when guns are threatened by the enemy closing in, not as reported:
guns retreat even before they unlimber at distances from 400 to 800 yards


Keep in mind that artillery is always stubborn to move or control once they engage the enemy. My standard of procedure with artillery is keep the officers TC'd at all times once engaged. I move them about using command combinations of tcofficers and Atcommoff, Aattackmarch to get them out of enemy fire, and Ajustrun for somewhat controlled retreats.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #37

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RebBugler,

Thank you so much for looking into this! I greatly appreciate it.

I just finished playing Mansfield in the RR Campaign and had no trouble at all with my artillery. I intentionally moved a battery within 100 yards of the Yank infantry. They retreated. Otherwise I got no retreats at all.

I definitely saw different behavior playing the Rebs on New Grounds.

I will give it a try next week. Right now I'm off to the real McCoy. I'm gonna spend a week at Gettysburg, Antietam. South Mountain and environs.

Thanks again man!

S
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #38

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Hi

Where can I find the Patched version of this with all the little fixes?

Thanks

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #39

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1norselad wrote:
Hi

Where can I find the Patched version of this with all the little fixes?

Thanks


As updates are announced, the first post DL link is updated.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 5 months ago #40

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Thanks RebBugler

Started a game last night the mod is excellent
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 4 months ago #41

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I have played this once through to get a feel for whether there is any sort of advantage from trying to take ground or hold it, and I find there isn't. So, I am going to play it through again, at the highest difficulty level, and record the whole thing, with the intent of beating your "Bar". The biggest problem is managing artillery. My experience is that trying to move the artillery by battalion is problematic. Any suggestions?
o/

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 4 months ago #42

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Gerry wrote:
I have played this once through to get a feel for whether there is any sort of advantage from trying to take ground or hold it, and I find there isn't. So, I am going to play it through again, at the highest difficulty level, and record the whole thing, with the intent of beating your "Bar". The biggest problem is managing artillery. My experience is that trying to move the artillery by battalion is problematic. Any suggestions?


Alright, looking forward to hearing about your progress.

The command 'tcofficers' is the best way I've found to move artillery by battalion, you move by formation then tcofficers to insure their complete movement to the end position. Tcofficers is on the B&F toolbar or you can attach it to your keyboard.

Good luck, er, Generaling, with your quest.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 4 months ago #43

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Yes, I use that command. I find that the battalion simply does not respond. Sometimes I command the battalion to move forward in column and then put the battery into line when it gets close to its assigned position. But simply taking control of the battalion commander, positioning his destination, and telling the battalion to form line doesn't work, most of the time.
o/
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 4 months ago #44

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Gerry wrote:
Yes, I use that command. I find that the battalion simply does not respond. Sometimes I command the battalion to move forward in column and then put the battery into line when it gets close to its assigned position. But simply taking control of the battalion commander, positioning his destination, and telling the battalion to form line doesn't work, most of the time.


Getting division level movements under control using tcofficers is a sequence-timing thing. First TC the selected officer, issue 'movement to' and facing, formation...Then quickly select tcofficers. Maybe your sequence or timing was off, all I know is this works for me every time. Divisions go where I tell them to. I would have left this game long ago if I couldn't control MY unit movements. Tcofficers was a late control feature that came out in a patch well after the game was released. Before, we used to have to laboriously go around and TC each brigade officer after giving the initial orders.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 1 month ago #45

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I am really looking forward to trying this one out. Are new strategies possible with the size of this map?

Is there any way to get a longer time limit on it? I really appreciated the 11 hour extended version on original Gettysburg 3 days as it is so much to take in and pay attention to.

Really love reading peoples AARs of this too.

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 1 month ago #46

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jozk wrote:
I am really looking forward to trying this one out. Are new strategies possible with the size of this map?

Is there any way to get a longer time limit on it? I really appreciated the 11 hour extended version on original Gettysburg 3 days as it is so much to take in and pay attention to.

Really love reading peoples AARs of this too.


I think you're in for a treat, the large map definitely allows for more strategies. And, as requested, I've edited the final end times adding three more hours, so both scenarios are 11 1/2 hours long with the attached download...

Unzip and replace the Scenarios folder (overwrite or rename previous)

File Attachment:

File Name: Scenarios.zip
File Size: 204 KB


Good Generaling
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years, 1 month ago #47

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Thank you kindly sir!

I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into this and will send word of my fortunes.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 2 years ago #48

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I plan on doing an AAR for this scenario. I don't have time to sit down for 8 hours and play straight through, so I've had to do it an hour at a time here or there. Currently it's just after dark on July 1, and the rebel offensive seems to be winding down... finally. So far this has been an awesome experience, between the playability of the scenario script and Mark's new Gettysburg map.

Thanks again for this scenario.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #49

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Quote from Mike's thread

mike1984 wrote:
Still working on this. Turns out I need to fall back *farther* that I thought to force the rebs to disengage after the night sequence. But I do have another suggestion: make the nights last a little longer. If a player doesn't want to wait them out, they can always speed up the game clock. But the night time is critical for re-positioning after a long days fight. Without that ability, it kind of takes away from the feel that this is a multi-day battle.


As per this request download and unzip, copy Maplocations and Battlescript into the scenarios folder, Union version, overwrite or rename originals. These additions will extend the battle to nine hours, with 15 minute night sequences.

File Attachment:

File Name: battlescript.zip
File Size: 21 KB
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #50

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I must say, the service here is top notch!
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #51

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Hey RebBugler:
I have a new computer. Midlevel gaming rig Windows 10. I am using Bugles and Flags XVI and the New Ground carryover scenario. Game keeps crashing. Mouse click is what does it. I have tried changing the rez, cleaning the registry, tearing my hair. I am trying to record it. I recorded 30 minutes successfully but on trying to play more, it keeps crashing. HELP
o/

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #52

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Gerry wrote:
Hey RebBugler:
I have a new computer. Midlevel gaming rig Windows 10. I am using Bugles and Flags XVI and the New Ground carryover scenario. Game keeps crashing. Mouse click is what does it. I have tried changing the rez, cleaning the registry, tearing my hair. I am trying to record it. I recorded 30 minutes successfully but on trying to play more, it keeps crashing. HELP


Could you post the SOWGB.log found in the Work folder after a crash.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #53

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File Attachment:

File Name: SowGB.log
File Size: 44 KB

Here it is
o/

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 11 months ago #54

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23:00:25 Loading GB3D-July1-3 Gettysburg Three Days (C-Army) DRF SR10


Appears that you're playing the wrong scenario, this one's in B&F...But still, shouldn't be crashing.

Look for the two scenarios with "New Ground" in their name.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 10 months ago #55

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Sorry to be a pain about this scenario... I just enjoy it too much.

1. The assault by Rodes' Division is really weird. Just as the division is deployed in historical formation for an assault (3 brigades in front, two behind, all in battle lines), all the regiments start marching toward the center of the divisional line, and attack my position down Oak Ridge in a column of regiments, many are in marching column. I swear, if I can grab a screen shot, it's a sight to see. 7,000 men funneling into an attack column no wider than a dozen soldiers. The attack path seems to change little from this point, and leads to the almost impossible situations later defending away from Cemetery Hill.

Update: I got a screenshot. Is this because the division is receiving a divisional order, and not orders by brigade?

screen0053_2018-03-29.jpg


2. When I try to "pull" the rebels away from Cemetery Hill, all it does is give them a weak center to exploit and attack through. They don't seem to give much chase to my forces on their flanks. Spreading out the attack paths to more historical approaches for the rebels would help alleviate this.

3. Ed Johnson's division is available to the rebels far too early. This is probably the single most damaging part of Day 1 in this scenario. Johnson's division historically arrived at dusk that day. But in this scenario it arrives while my troops are still defending Seminary Ridge. Combined with the ramrod attack by Rodes, Johnson's arrival seals the deal preventing the Union side from ever defending long enough to force the rebels to call of their attack that night.

Forgive my ignorance on script editing, but I'm trying to find where these tweaks can be made for my own copy. I have a somewhat general idea, but I have to go through the documentation again. Here's what I'd like to do:

1. Have Rodes Division attack along a more broad front in a more southeasterly direction, Doles' Brigade should attack completely on the eastern side of Carlisle Road. Also, delay this attack by 5 minutes.

2. Pender and Heth's divisions launch their "afternoon" attacks on a more southerly path, toward the area just south of the Lutheran Seminary. This will allow Daniel's Brigade a more clear path to attack toward the Railroad Cut.

3. Johnson's Division should not be able to enter the battle until the very last few minutes. This can be achieved in a few ways, but probably the best way would be to delay arrival on the field until much later on the 1st day. That leads to the next point...

4. Without Johnson's Division joining the attack so early, it would allow the Union side at least a fighting chance to force the rebels to call off the assault that evening. And if that happens, Johnson's Division would march along its historical path around the north side of Gettysburg, to north of Hanover Road and east of Rock Creek, avoiding enemy contact. This would also affect Day 2, in that Johnson would be in position to attack Culp's Hill from the north and east.

5. If the rebels do not capture Cemetery Hill that day and call off the offensive, they should move farther back into the town. I know that this would be ahistorical, but in terms of the game mechanics, it would keep them a bit further out of range. Since the artillery in this game fire no matter what, a greater distance is needed between lines.

I realize none of that would guarantee anything, since the game is built to vary every time a scenario is played. But with those changes, I'd be curious if it affected the flow of this scenario. Personally, one of my least favorite things that happens in any SOW scenario is when both armies approach each other in a quarter-mile front, 10 brigades deep, and just smash into each other until there's no one left. That's a little bit how this one felt, especially from mid-day on the 1st to morning on the 2nd.

And if I can learn how to really edit the scripts, then I'd like to create a purely historical version of this, where the rebels don't ever attack on the evening of the 1st.

I'll stop there for now. You're probably sick of hearing from me.
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 9 months ago #56

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mike1984 wrote:
Sorry to be a pain about this scenario... I just enjoy it too much.

1. The assault by Rodes' Division is really weird. Just as the division is deployed in historical formation for an assault (3 brigades in front, two behind, all in battle lines), all the regiments start marching toward the center of the divisional line, and attack my position down Oak Ridge in a column of regiments, many are in marching column. I swear, if I can grab a screen shot, it's a sight to see. 7,000 men funneling into an attack column no wider than a dozen soldiers. The attack path seems to change little from this point, and leads to the almost impossible situations later defending away from Cemetery Hill.

Update: I got a screenshot. Is this because the division is receiving a divisional order, and not orders by brigade?

screen0053_2018-03-29.jpg

When I get a chance I'll check the scripting here and find out what went amiss. Regiments moving in column in attack sequences should never happen. This is a quirk of scripting that must always be taken in consideration, whereas, when given a 'move line forward' command, all the units gravitate to the center behind the leader in column formation and don't form the line until the leader has reached his destination. I've found two ways to avoid this "line cluster quirk": (1)use 'hold form' line formations or (2)use custom line formations with the leader 100 yards to the rear, or 200, etc. I prefer the latter as 'hold form' line formations are sometimes blocked and halt their progress. The custom formations have tested out to work every time if you keep the leader TC'd.
Pretty sure that Rodes debacle was a division move, I'll check it out.


2. When I try to "pull" the rebels away from Cemetery Hill, all it does is give them a weak center to exploit and attack through. They don't seem to give much chase to my forces on their flanks. Spreading out the attack paths to more historical approaches for the rebels would help alleviate this.

3. Ed Johnson's division is available to the rebels far too early. This is probably the single most damaging part of Day 1 in this scenario. Johnson's division historically arrived at dusk that day. But in this scenario it arrives while my troops are still defending Seminary Ridge. Combined with the ramrod attack by Rodes, Johnson's arrival seals the deal preventing the Union side from ever defending long enough to force the rebels to call of their attack that night.

2. By my testing I was able to pull or distract the Rebel attack away from the hills in question long enough to gain full control the next morning as reinforcements arrived. This is a KEY challenge for the player, as it sets the tone, and scripting, for the remainder of the battle regarding the Rebel strategy.
3. If I errored here it wasn't intentional. Sure, by Johnson's official report he arrived too late to engage the enemy, but many historians disagree, and that if Ewell had pushed on, as his predecessor Jackson would have, the Rebel attack would have continued into the night that first day. www.historynet.com/did-lt-gen-richard-ewell-lose-the-battle-of-gettysburg.htm


Forgive my ignorance on script editing, but I'm trying to find where these tweaks can be made for my own copy. I have a somewhat general idea, but I have to go through the documentation again. Here's what I'd like to do:

1. Have Rodes Division attack along a more broad front in a more southeasterly direction, Doles' Brigade should attack completely on the eastern side of Carlisle Road. Also, delay this attack by 5 minutes.

2. Pender and Heth's divisions launch their "afternoon" attacks on a more southerly path, toward the area just south of the Lutheran Seminary. This will allow Daniel's Brigade a more clear path to attack toward the Railroad Cut.

Just a matter of changing CSA objectives along the way.


3. Johnson's Division should not be able to enter the battle until the very last few minutes. This can be achieved in a few ways, but probably the best way would be to delay arrival on the field until much later on the 1st day. That leads to the next point...

4. Without Johnson's Division joining the attack so early, it would allow the Union side at least a fighting chance to force the rebels to call off the assault that evening. And if that happens, Johnson's Division would march along its historical path around the north side of Gettysburg, to north of Hanover Road and east of Rock Creek, avoiding enemy contact. This would also affect Day 2, in that Johnson would be in position to attack Culp's Hill from the north and east.

5. If the rebels do not capture Cemetery Hill that day and call off the offensive, they should move farther back into the town. I know that this would be ahistorical, but in terms of the game mechanics, it would keep them a bit further out of range. Since the artillery in this game fire no matter what, a greater distance is needed between lines.

You'll have to wait for night with a scripted 30 yards visibility to pull the troops back. Probably precede that with brigade retreats to disengage any units.


I realize none of that would guarantee anything, since the game is built to vary every time a scenario is played. But with those changes, I'd be curious if it affected the flow of this scenario. Personally, one of my least favorite things that happens in any SOW scenario is when both armies approach each other in a quarter-mile front, 10 brigades deep, and just smash into each other until there's no one left. That's a little bit how this one felt, especially from mid-day on the 1st to morning on the 2nd.

Yeah, hard to avoid the mass slaughter events as the AI doesn't understand DOOM. Add the difficulties of scripting controlled retreats and you've got quite a challenge of maintaining realistic or historic results via scripting alone.


And if I can learn how to really edit the scripts, then I'd like to create a purely historical version of this, where the rebels don't ever attack on the evening of the 1st.

I'll stop there for now. You're probably sick of hearing from me.


Good luck with this quest, it won't be easy, but it can be very fulfilling, especially when you get good informative feedback as you've done here for this mod. Much Appreciated!
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Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 2 months ago #57

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Really enjoyed these scenarios. I'm not sure why but none of the commanders pictures are correct and many times it just shows a black square.

Anyway to get the map for sandbox mode? I've looked but the map doesn't show up in the list.

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year, 1 month ago #58

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Legion wrote:
Really enjoyed these scenarios. I'm not sure why but none of the commanders pictures are correct and many times it just shows a black square.

Anyway to get the map for sandbox mode? I've looked but the map doesn't show up in the list.


Much Appreciated!

Some mod you had activated caused the portrait issues because the OOB for this scenario uses only stock portraits and doesn't mess with them in any way. If you get a chance post your Work/sowgb.log file right after playing this mod. It should show me which mod is causing the issues so I can alert other folks in advance about the mods conflict you've reported.

For Sandbox play with this map look for Turning Point.

Thanks for this report.
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In remembrance:
Eric Schuttler "louie raider" (1970 - 2018)
John Bonin "2nd Texas Infantry" (1977 - 2012)

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 1 year ago #59

  • Jolly
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  • NSD Artist
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I've really been having a good time playing this on the Confederate side - very immmersive!

I was pretty confident I'd got it all done and dusted after about an hour into the third day when things took a decided turn for the worst! Ah well - lesson learnt!

Exceptional map + graphics.

David(jolly(
The following user(s) said Thank You: RebBugler

Re: Gettysburg 3Days - New Ground 7 months ago #60

  • Saltjunkie
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Is the first day of battle only supposed to be 3 hours, i.e., from 6:30pm to 9:30pm?
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