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TOPIC: ECW Mod Project

ECW Mod Project 2 months, 2 weeks ago #1

  • Saddletank
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Conversation carried over from here:

www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/75854-ecw-mod-project--

All - I think the first hurdle we need to jump is getting infantry with no ranged weapon to work. I can easily see if infantry with 0 ammo will initiate melees in WL.

After that I think discussion of troop/sprite types would be helpful. I personally have always disliked the GB/WL charge animation for infantry where formation is lost and the men rush in at a run. For the ECW we need a much more steady and measured advance at the walk for infantry. I am not sure if the charge style where formations are lost is hardcoded into WL but it should be possible to animate sprites so they don't have the typical running animations.

Cavalry were generally of two types in terms of tactics. The Swedish tactic used an advance with pistols and swords with a volley of pistols before closing to melee. This closure to combat could be at anything from a walk under good control from the officers (in theory) to a rapid uncontrolled charge typical of Royalist cavalry (in practice). The German, Dutch and Spanish tactics saw cavalrymen as a source of mounted firepower and this tactic usually meant an advance at the walk, coming to a halt at very close range, or forming into one of several circulating motions (caracole) and firing pistols into an enemy to cause sufficient loss and disorder before any attempt at sword combat was initiated. In defence the German/Dutch tactic required an enemy attack to be met at the halt with a volley of pistol fire before swords were drawn. In practice, at least in the early battles of the war, this style as favoured by Parliamentarian cavalry collapsed under the headlong rush attacks of Royalist cavalry. The result of most of these clashes was that the cavalry of both sides was permanently removed from the battle! The losers fleeing for miles and the winners pursuing without any attempt to rally them.

We therefore need at least two distinct advance cavalry methods and two charge to contact animations.

Dragoons were infantry mounted on poor quality horses who generally rode to battle in strategic terms but dismounted to fight tactically. It was not until the New Model Army of 1645 that dragoons truly became mobile on the battlefield keeping their mounts nearby and being able to mount up and ride into melee with sword, or mount up to ride to a new tactical position from which to dismount and skirmish on foot. I suggest we have dragoons in the early war period simply as infantry skirmish style troops, while the NMA dragoons would be capable of dismounting to fire and mounting to melee with swords.

I think, following Zekes' summary in the GB forum, that artillery can be used as single or pairs of small guns attached to infantry regiments (brigades). Each army might have 1 single stationary battery of guns of from 4 to about 12 pieces that would be of about 6pdr weight of shot, perhaps a little heavier.

We need a game mechanic to keep these bigger guns completely stationary. They were deployed before battle and incapable of movement thereafter as they were hauled by civilian contractors who would not be persuaded to shift guns while in battle, nor was such a tactical concept present in the minds of commanders.

bcw-project.org/military/tactics
HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

Re: ECW Mod Project 2 months, 2 weeks ago #2

  • Pom
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There should't be any issues with animations, in fact I like the way the sprites are handled in WL. None of the jumping you get in GB, which means more freedom to indulge yourself. Purely from a visual point of view, I'd like to see animated flag bearers.

On getting melee infantry to work, I don't think taking away the ammo will work. I'm sure they will retreat or even run away from the enemy. I think a better way will be to create a new weapon and ammo type. You can set the range to whatever you want, and give it whatever effects you want.

Pom.

Re: ECW Mod Project - 2 months, 1 week ago #3

  • Zeke
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Melee is the really tricky one currently in both games SOW WL and SOW G this lasts no more than a few seconds before the troops disengage and one or both skedaddles out of the fight that simply didn't happen in the English civil war when bodies of troops entered 'point of contact' melee combat could last for prolonged periods (a few minutes or a few hours!) troops would be eventually be pushed back against themselves and they would only retreat once unit cohesion had been lost.

Re: cavalry you are absolutely right Saddletank tactics of the period dictated trotting up to opponents delivering a volley of pistol before charging in with swords - It sounds ridiculous but it was effective due to the poor range and accuracy the weapon of choice was the wheel lock pistol which was far more efficient than the matchlock however once fired it was virtually impossible to reload and like the musket once fired troopers would simply turn it round to use as a club - dependent on status the cavalryman might have more than one pistol however it was rare to have more than two on them.

Re the Artillery perhaps the static nature of the ECW artillery could be simulated by reducing the movement speed when unlimbered to zero and rather than having the artillery in a battery I would add the individual cannons to the infantry brigades as this worked quite well in the Blenheim mod - Cannon of the period made a lot of noise and had an effect on moral but it would be nearly hundred years before they became really effective on the battlefield.

Question to the forum: Is there a way to either increase the time taken limbering a cannon or stop a cannon from re-limbering again?

Pom has hit the nail on the head The rate of fire for muskets and pistols would need to be altered significantly to simulate ECW conditions - vastly reducing the reload rate, range and accuracy. You would also need to add melee weapons such as pike and sword again you would need to have this set up so prolonged combat would be possible this might be achieved by reducing the reliability of the weapon perhaps?... I'm guessing as I have never really played around with this CSV file

Question to the forum: Any ideas from the forum on making Melee last longer?

regards

Zeke
I only know two tunes...One's "Yankee Doodle" and the other one isn't!

Ulysses S. Grant

Re: ECW Mod Project - 2 months, 1 week ago #4

  • Saddletank
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I can draw on what I have learned from helping with the KS Mod and yes, melee can be made as protracted or short as you wish and as lethal or harmless as well. What determines a units break point though is the relative headcount. A very small unit will not fight for long vs a very big one no matter what numbers you put in, so having infantry units of comparable size on opposing sides will help.

I think we need to determine that there were two types of guns, very light ones that accompanied the infantry formations and which we might think of later as "regimental" guns, and the bigger battery pieces. The latter were very rare. The King deployed a battery of about 6 heavy guns at Edgehill.

The horsemanship factor as well as experience determine how long a gun takes to unlimber.

At present my time is being consumed converting Gettysburg maps to European ones for Napoleonics but I will give the ECW thought as I go.
HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zeke
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