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Cavalry charge speeds

5 months 3 days ago #1 by Buford_119

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  • What would be the typical (real-life) speed of a cavalry charge? I have seen values between 20 mph and 45 mph, and wanted to ask which speed was generally used.

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    5 months 3 days ago #2 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds
    Googled 'horse run speed' and got this:

    The gallop averages 40 to 48 kilometres per hour (25 to 30 mph). The world record for a horse galloping over a short, sprint distance is 88 kilometres per hour (55 mph). Besides these basic gaits, some horses perform a two-beat pace, instead of the trot.


    Mounted speed would obviously be slower, and dependent on the mounted weight. Read where a good run with a 110 pound jockey aboard was 44 mph. So, figure your fully armed cavalryman from there.

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    5 months 2 days ago #3 by Buford_119

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  • How does SOWWL scale distances/speeds? That is, do units cover a certain in-game distance faster than they would cover that distance in real life?

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    5 months 2 days ago - 5 months 2 days ago #4 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: How does SOWWL scale distances/speeds? That is, do units cover a certain in-game distance faster than they would cover that distance in real life?


    SOW scales down distances to closely match formation sizes governed by 4-6 to 1 soldiers to sprite ratio. So yes, cavalry covers SOW distances faster.

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    Last edit: 5 months 2 days ago by RebBugler.

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    5 months 2 days ago #5 by Buford_119

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  • What is the numerical value of this scaling factor (that is, how much faster do units move in SOW relative to real life)?

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    5 months 2 days ago #6 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: What is the numerical value of this scaling factor (that is, how much faster do units move in SOW relative to real life)?


    They don't move faster, they cover distances faster. The run speed is relative to the walk speed. I don't know the specific scaling numbers you're requesting, maybe someone will chime in, and we'll all learn something.

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    4 months 3 weeks ago #7 by Buford_119

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  • RebBugler,

    Just a point of clarification:

    When you say that units cover in-game distances faster, is this due to the distances between certain features being reduced? That is, will units travel from point A to point B in-game faster than they would travel from point A to point B in real life?

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    4 months 3 weeks ago #8 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: RebBugler,

    Just a point of clarification:

    When you say that units cover in-game distances faster, is this due to the distances between certain features being reduced? That is, will units travel from point A to point B in-game faster than they would travel from point A to point B in real life?


    Yes...

    Jim, NorbSoft's lead designer, once stated that 1/2 hour of SOW play roughly equals one hour of real time play.

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    4 months 3 weeks ago #9 by Buford_119

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  • But a unit would cover 100 "in-game" yards in the same time that it would cover 100 "real" yards in real life?

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    4 months 3 weeks ago - 4 months 3 weeks ago #10 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: But a unit would cover 100 "in-game" yards in the same time that it would cover 100 "real" yards in real life?


    No sir, half the time. Check out the ' True Ground ' mods, they're scaled for everything being equal, or real, especially the SR1 version. Maybe those visuals will explain my rationale.

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    Last edit: 4 months 3 weeks ago by RebBugler.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #11 by Buford_119

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  • So could I achieve the "True Ground" effect by halving all speeds and halving the sprite sizes?

    Also, doesn't the increased "in-game" speed mean that units can cover the weapons range of an average musket (150 yards) in less time than it would take in real life?

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    4 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 2 weeks ago #12 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: So could I achieve the "True Ground" effect by halving all speeds and halving the sprite sizes?

    Yes, but not by "halving all speeds"

    Also, doesn't the increased "in-game" speed mean that units can cover the weapons range of an average musket (150 yards) in less time than it would take in real life?

    The "in-game" speed is not increased, the distances are doubled, so all movements from point A to B take twice as long to complete in the 'True Ground' setting.

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    Last edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by RebBugler.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #13 by Buford_119

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  • Which file governs map distances (spacing/location of various map elements)?

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #14 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: Which file governs map distances (spacing/location of various map elements)?


    The map files, obviously, and the gfx.csv file.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #15 by Buford_119

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  • Is there a guide/instructions on how to change map sizing? I would first start with any files involving coordinates, but would appreciate any advice.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #16 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: Is there a guide/instructions on how to change map sizing? I would first start with any files involving coordinates, but would appreciate any advice.


    No instructions per say, but plenty of map making threads to find info. I do know that expanding maps is a tedious process because all the terrain and map objects have to be reset with new coordinates. I went the True Ground route by reducing sprites and objects, less tedious, but still a pain.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #17 by Buford_119

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  • What is governed by the “UnitsperYard” entry in each map .ini file? I see that the default value for this is 30, so would setting it to 15 achieve the “True Ground” effect in terms of travel times (but not visually)?

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    4 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 2 weeks ago #18 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: What is governed by the “UnitsperYard” entry in each map .ini file? I see that the default value for this is 30, so would setting it to 15 achieve the “True Ground” effect in terms of travel times (but not visually)?


    Tinker with this mod, maybe it'll answer some of your questions:
    www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/modifications/79072-true-los-realistic-battle-distances#79072

    “UnitsperYard” refers to the number of pixels per yard...

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    4 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 2 weeks ago #19 by Buford_119

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  • Thanks for the link :)

    I see that you determined the appropriate value of UnitsperYard to be 62 for the GB engine; does this still apply for the WL engine?

    If it is still applicable, all I would have to do is change this value for all map .ini files and shrink all formations in drills.csv by half, correct?

    Edit: As well as changing move speeds in unitglobal.csv
    Last edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Buford_119.
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    4 months 2 weeks ago #20 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: Thanks for the link :)

    I see that you determined the appropriate value of UnitsperYard to be 62 for the GB engine; does this still apply for the WL engine?

    If it is still applicable, all I would have to do is change this value for all map .ini files and shrink all formations in drills.csv by half, correct?

    Edit: As well as changing move speeds in unitglobal.csv


    The 'True LOS' mod began with me tinkering with WL files, so yes, same process as per the GB files. Both engines are scaled similarly so modded changes should parallel. You appear to be on the right path for your quest now, good luck, and welcome to Modding. :)

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    4 months 2 weeks ago - 4 months 2 weeks ago #21 by Buford_119

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  • How would you automatically change the row/column distances for the formation locations? Is there a way to do this as with the overall formation parameters (row/column distance), or should this be done manually?
    Last edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Buford_119.

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    4 months 2 weeks ago #22 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: How would you automatically change the row/column distances for the formation locations? Is there a way to do this as with the overall formation parameters (row/column distance), or should this be done manually?


    Quoted from the True LOS thread...

    However, formations were distorted due to the increased ranges. Fortunately they were fixed by simply reducing all row and column distances by half (multiplying by 0.5). I say simply, but still a long and tedious process since all the individually altered sprite locations within each formation had to be adjusted also. The main row and column adjustments were relatively fast by applying the 0.5 formula to the row and column width columns of the Drills file.


    This is in reference to and using Excel...

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    4 months 1 week ago #23 by Buford_119

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  • I have done the following:

    1. Halved all row and column distances in drills.csv (both the overall formation columns and the entries for individual men in each formation).

    2. Set "UnitsperYard" in the map .ini files to "62" from the default value of 30.

    3. Divided all unit movement speeds in unitglobal.csv by a factor of two (new speed = old speed/2).

    This is resulting in odd behavior from units, mostly involving individual sprites becoming significantly detached from their parent formations (lone soldiers walking at a substantial distance from their battalions). Is this expected for these changes?

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    4 months 1 week ago - 4 months 1 week ago #24 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds
    Have you seen these same anomalies in the 'True LOS' mod?

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    4 months 1 week ago #25 by Buford_119

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  • I think they may be occurring due to the reduced "event time" (that is, units being placed a shorter distance in yards from one another due to the scaling change). In "Picton's Rascals", for instance, the French troops start at about 140/150 yards from the Allied units, causing several regiments to retreat a short distance before engaging.

    Is there a relatively straightforward way to expand the map sizing to restore the original "Yards" distances, or would this require more in-depth work?

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    4 months 1 week ago - 4 months 1 week ago #26 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Is there a relatively straightforward way to expand the map sizing to restore the original "Yards" distances, or would this require more in-depth work?


    From all the feedback I've read, map expansion requires repositioning all map objects and terrain features...Straightforward, maybe, simple and easy, doubtful.

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    4 months 1 week ago #27 by Buford_119

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  • How did you compensate for the halved distance (sometimes bringing units into engagement distance from scenario start) in your True Ground scenarios?

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    4 months 1 week ago - 4 months 1 week ago #28 by RebBugler

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  • Replied by RebBugler on topic Re: Cavalry charge speeds

    Buford_119 wrote: How did you compensate for the halved distance (sometimes bringing units into engagement distance from scenario start) in your True Ground scenarios?


    True Ground reduces sprite sizes to get longer (more realistic) engagement distances, it only adjusts 'UnitsperYard' to sync with map distances, AS EXPLAINED IN TRUE DISTANCES .

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