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I'm considering making a mod

4 years 9 months ago #1 by gombicek

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  • I'm not sure if I will be able to take it to the end.But the questions is what mods are people working on? I was thinging about making a mod for austro-prussian war or maybe a boxer rebellion or russo-japanese war but that is probably out of the scope of the engine posibillities. Still it's in the very far future. Also are there some tutorials how to make a sprites from scratch?
    Thanks and Happy new year.

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    4 years 9 months ago #2 by Saddletank

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  • There is an 1859 Italian War mod nearing completion. I am not aware of any other complete remake mods yet.

    If you are completely new to modding I'd take very small steps at first and do some minor things to the base game like changing unit stats to see how more modern weapons would affect gameplay. You need to work in the logistics folder and the csv files for that. Download the SDK to get inside that part of the game. You can also download other mods to see what changes people have made and where within the game structure those changes take effect. The KS Mod might be a good place to start as that alters everything from new unit sprites, to weapon effects, to AI logic to the toolbar to the splash screens.

    There's a couple of people here building sprites and the usual method is to build a figure in 3D Max or another 3D modelling program, then animate it to capture the various frames of 2D animation the game needs. This kind of work is beyond my skills but hopefully one of the sprite makers will contribute to this conversation.

    Its a discussion I don't think we've ever had on the NSD forums and it would be extremely useful if we had this info here.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    4 years 9 months ago #3 by Gunfreak

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  • The engine is perfect for any large scale battle, with concentration of fire power, so any large scale battle of 1700-1870s.

    With Franco prussian war probebly being last sutable war, and wss probably being first, tho some wars of the 1670-1690s might work too.

    Seven years wars are probably the easiest coding wise, mostly a graphical make over.

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    4 years 9 months ago #4 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • SOWGB is a better platform for the Seven Years War as the ACW was fought in that style. To use SOWWL, you'd have to remove the square logic as it wasn't widely used in that period. Unless you can program in C, that will not be possible. You'd also have to get rid of the skirmish company spawning in the same manner.

    Unless the modder is willing to make substantial changes to the AI code, SOWWL is really only suited for periods where squares and small skirmish companies were commonplace.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    4 years 9 months ago #5 by Gunfreak

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  • But on the other hand, with gettysburg you need massive coding for the cav.

    With waterloo, the cav is there, the arty is there (just make 7t slower for heavy pieces ) square can be there, just make the parameter to use them diffrent.

    But yes you need to remove the skirmish ability. And column formations.

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    4 years 9 months ago - 4 years 9 months ago #6 by Deeter

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  • Impromptu squares may not have been used prior to the Napoleonic wars, but formal ones certainly were. Diagrams from the Seven Years War show squares with one battalion per face (usually grenadiers) deployed on the flanks of the main infantry lines. How would one code that?

    Deeter
    Last edit: 4 years 9 months ago by Deeter. Reason: typo

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    4 years 9 months ago #7 by Marching Thru Georgia

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  • I agree the stock cavalry in SOWGB was rubbish. Although after saying that I should point out that it does do a good job of replicating plains indian behavior. However it could be modded to be a formidable presence on the battlefield. The KS Nappy mod for SOWGB achieved that.

    Artillery in both games is exactly the same, completely ineffectual. However this can also be easily modded in either game.

    Diagrams from the Seven Years War show squares with one battalion per face (usually grenadiers) deployed on the flanks of the main infantry lines. How would one code that?

    You'd have to create a new brigade formation.

    I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.

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    4 years 9 months ago #8 by Gunfreak

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  • Deeter wrote: Impromptu squares may not have been used prior to the Napoleonic wars, but formal ones certainly were. Diagrams from the Seven Years War show squares with one battalion per face (usually grenadiers) deployed on the flanks of the main infantry lines. How would one code that?

    Deeter


    There are refrences to square bering used as defence against cavalry both in great northern war and war of spanish succession.

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    4 years 9 months ago #9 by Gunfreak

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  • Yeah i remember some promises about artillery beeing very deadly in waterloo, its not, infact i don't remember reading about any period where artillery was as useless as it us in scourge of war games.

    Hell 20 old bombards during the Italian wars did more damage then 200 guns will do i waterloo.

    Would it be possible to transfer infantry code from gettysburg to waterloo?

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    4 years 9 months ago #10 by Saddletank

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  • When designing any wargame rules you have to be very circumspect about what historical data you deem representative and which you deem suspect or not commonplace. I am sure square as a drill was available to many nations (the concept was known about at least as far back as the 1630s with pike blocks that faced their outermost ranks outwards to defend vs cavalry) but a cursory read of most general histories of the SYW tells you at once that it was not commonly used on the battlefield and I think its important that any wargame rules (or software) should include what was commonplace and typical of the battles and tactics of the period you are trying to replicate rather than what might be done, could be done, or was done only rarely. If you include the rare and unusual then these become commonplace in your battles and you lose the essence of the SYW tactical battle.

    Squares were not used. That's a good generalisation.

    I do not think the refused flank units of grenadiers etc that were clearly there to prevent the extreme ends of a line being hit and rolled up is really worth modelling if you use SoW since the game allows brigades to face a flank threat much too easily and I see no way to overcome this.

    Another design rule I go by is "just because it was there in reality, it does not mean it needs to be included in a simulation". As long as your mod covers the essence and "mood" of a SYW battle, the tiny details are less important.

    Skirmish infantry was used but frequently these troops were irregulars, formed out of full battalions (or independent companies) and tended to operate on the fringes of a formal battle in woods and thickets or on their own in petits guerre. You'd never see skirmishing infantry in the midst of a formal battle.

    Columns were very definitely used but generally in an approach march or for manoeuvre across the battlefield to a place where the brigades deployed into lines. At Rossbach the entire Franco-Imperial army was caught in the flank in a long column of march. Two ways to achieve this in SoW is to make units default to line formation when within X yards of an enemy or to make columns very slow when close to an enemy. The latter won't work for the AI however.

    You'd need battalion guns for the SYW. The Blenheim mod for SoW:GB models these really well.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    4 years 9 months ago #11 by Jacquinot

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  • I think need just make some changes in logistic files

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    4 years 9 months ago #12 by Deeter

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  • So, I suppose that is the reason for the unfortunate decision that squares can't move? In this instance, I can provide dozens or more examples to the contrary. Interesting discussion...

    Deeter

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    4 years 9 months ago #13 by Saddletank

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  • That's an interesting discussion. Squares could move, yes, but they were not then squares, but a square-shaped formation of two lines and two columns. They still needed a fair bit of time to halt, dress, face and be able to repel cavalry. It also needed extremely well-drilled troops and skilled and alert officers to do this and many troops could not. So the answer is not an easy one. I think what NSD have done by providing the square as fixed but its able to move short distances as a column then resume square when it halts is a good compromise and still allows cavalry to have an effect on reducing its speed.

    I find that the advance 25 yards order used successively is a good enough representation of a battalion moving in square: while its in motion it is vulnerable but is able to halt, dress and be a formed square when it halts. All we are missing is the actual shape of the square when its moving, other than that this seems okay to me.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    4 years 9 months ago #14 by Deeter

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  • I wonder if it was really that difficult to move a square or that the troop had to be that experienced? There are numerous accounts of 1813 conscript battalions advancing in squares, etc. But we will never really know I suppose. No one today really knows how melees actually played out for example.

    At least the KS mod allows columns to fire (I think), differentiates between cavalry weights and fixes numerous other interpretations I disagree with.

    Deeter

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    4 years 9 months ago #15 by Saddletank

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  • Yes, columns of division fire from the front companies in the KS Mod.

    HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.

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    4 years 6 months ago #16 by RebBugler

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  • gombicek wrote: I'm not sure if I will be able to take it to the end.But the questions is what mods are people working on? I was thinging about making a mod for austro-prussian war or maybe a boxer rebellion or russo-japanese war but that is probably out of the scope of the engine posibillities. Still it's in the very far future. Also are there some tutorials how to make a sprites from scratch?
    Thanks and Happy new year.


    This thread, though informative, got off track. Here's a Sprite 'Building Tutorial' link by Tim, our present Sprite meister.

    www.madminutegames.com/MadMinuteBB/viewtopic.php?t=4728

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