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Problem with Victory Conditions

5 years 8 months ago #1 by pancerni

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  • One of the drawbacks of any points based set of victory conditions is that it completely ignores the reality of actual conditions on the ground and how they can sometimes be at odds with just adding up losses.

    I just finished scenario WL04 d'Erlon's attack, which I understand has a one hour time limit, but at the point the system indicated I had suffered a major defeat the situation on the ground was that I had broken the British line, splitting their forces from La Haye Sainte area from the main Allied body. I still had an entire brigade in reserve. The attached screen shots shows the progress I had made. I continued to play, despite the judgment of the game and easily withstood a British counter attack, capturing the 42nd Highland and British Guards in the process. If I had a division or two of cavalry I could have rolled down the entire Allied line and the battle would have been over by 3pm.

    Sure I took some casualties but cracking the Allied line and forcing the Allied artillery to retreat is the key to the battle.
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    5 years 8 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #2 by Little Powell

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  • Those screenshots show that the Objectives are not being held. In the majority of the scenarios, gaining points from objectives are the key to winning them. This is especially true for the scenarios that historically, didn't go in the players favor (such as WL04). Yes you may have broken the enemy lines, yes you may have caused a lot of casualties, but you didn't take and hold the vital ground, and clear it completely of the enemy (which would activate the objectives).
    Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Little Powell.

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    5 years 8 months ago #3 by ferragus

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  • I am also having some trouble with the objective loactions... Sometimes I just can not seem to be able to capture an objective! Can you explain us how does the holding of objectives work? I have some precise questions about it:

    - We need to clear enemys to what distance?
    - Do we need to keep a force right below the objective mark all the time?
    - How large must that force be?
    - Do we earn fixed points automaticaly once we capture it and loose them automaticaly when we loose the objective? Or must we keep them for a certain period before gaining those points?

    Thanks in advance!

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    5 years 8 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #4 by lordhedgwich

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  • I have wondered this too.. I think its in the 8th scenario as the French where you drive the Prussians out of the town. Cleared the town had 2 regiments of infantry in the church but it still said i didnt hold it i put my commander in it and then it said i held it.. seems you have to have an officer or your commander in objectives to hold them at least in my experience
    Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by lordhedgwich.

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    5 years 8 months ago #5 by Jim

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  • If you mouse over the objective location on the minimap the conditions are shown there. For WL07 The tooltip shows: Placenoit Church(Plyr,hold) 500 men RAD:50 yds, the interpretation being that for this objective you need to hold this objective and have 500 men within a 50 yard radius of the objective marker. Practically you need to actually occupy the church to win this specific objective.

    -Jim

    "My God, if we've not got a cool brain and a big one too, to manage this affair, the nation is ruined forever." Unknown private, 14th Vermont, 2 July 1863

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    5 years 8 months ago #6 by con20or

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  • seems you have to have an officer or your commander in objectives to hold them at least in my experience


    Yep, you always need an officer and the required number of men to activate and hold the OBJ.
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    5 years 8 months ago #7 by lordhedgwich

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  • Thanks for reply

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    5 years 8 months ago - 5 years 8 months ago #8 by Sargon

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  • Extracted from the manual:

    Objective Points
    In most scenarios, Objective markers are visible over the
    battlefield. They allow you to see, from a distance, locations
    critical to victory. Seizing and holding these Objectives are
    important to winning every scenario in which they appear.

    Points are awarded to the highest-ranking commander present
    when the conditions for holding the Objective (see below) are
    met. In addition, all his subordinate units are awarded points,
    and their morale and fatigue improves.

    Over every Objective there will be a marker: a wreath
    surrounding a circle over the critical terrain – the farm complex
    at Hougoumont, for example. On the ground beneath the
    Objective marker there will be a rotating rayed sun marker. The
    circle in the Objective marker will show the flag of the army that
    currently holds the objective. If neither side holds the Objective
    the circle will be gray.

    When you select the highest-ranking commander within the
    Objective Radius, and his side has fulfilled the conditions for
    starting the Objective Timer (see below), information will appear
    in red letters and numbers just above the Toolbar. These are
    the Objective Name, Objective Timer, and, in parentheses, two
    numbers representing the selected commander’s distance from
    the Objective
    and the size of the Objective Radius (both in yards).
    The Objective Timer will count down the time needed to hold the
    Objective and win the Objective Points. When the Objective Timer
    reaches zero, the points and other bonuses will be awarded.

    The conditions for holding an Objective are given on the Map.
    Press “M” to open the Map and place the cursor on the Objective
    symbol. The tooltip will display the information, in the following
    order:

    - The name of the Objective – for example, “La Haye Sainte”.

    - The side to whom the Objective is assigned. “Plyr” means the
    Objective is assigned to you only. “All” means it is assigned
    to both sides.

    - The Objective’s type. Waypoint Objectives disappear from
    the map when won. A Hold Objective can be won many times,
    until Time Limit for the scenario (set by the scenario designer
    in Waterloo Scenarios, or by the player in Sandbox scenarios)
    is reached, or the Score Limit (set by the player in Sandbox
    scenarios) is reached, triggering the end of the scenario.

    - The number of friendly troops within the Objective Radius
    (see “RAD”) required to “hold” the Objective – for example,
    “597 men.” Units with morale of “Uneasy” or less are not
    stable enough to be counted toward this total.

    RAD: The only units that are counted in determining who is holding
    the Objective are those who are within this radius, given in yards.
    If enemy units are also present within this radius, the Objective
    will be neutral until one side outnumbers the other side two-toone
    inside the radius. Only then will the Objective Timer begin.
    The highest-ranking leader inside this radius will win the bonus
    points and other awards when the Objective Timer reaches zero.
    All his subordinate commanders and units will receive these
    awards as well.

    HOLD: This is the number of minutes required to hold the
    Objective to obtain its awards, as follows:
    P: This is the number of points added to the score of the
    commander who holds the Objective for the number of minutes
    required in “HOLD.”

    M: This is the number of Morale points added to all the units

    F: This is the number of Fatigue points added to all the infantry and
    cavalry units subordinate to the commander who won the Objective.

    A: This the number of rounds per man (ammunition points)
    added to all the infantry and cavalry units subordinate to the
    commander who won the Objective.
    subordinate to the commander who won the Objective.

    NOTE: When playing Multiplayer, it is best to move a highranking
    commander into the RAD to hold the objective, to
    maximize the number of subordinate units that will receive
    the morale and fatigue bonuses when the Objective is won.
    Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Sargon.

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    5 years 8 months ago #9 by lordhedgwich

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  • Extracted from the manual:

    Objective Points
    In most scenarios, Objective markers are visible over the
    battlefield. They allow you to see, from a distance, locations
    critical to victory. Seizing and holding these Objectives are
    important to winning every scenario in which they appear.

    Points are awarded to the highest-ranking commander present
    when the conditions for holding the Objective (see below) are
    met. In addition, all his subordinate units are awarded points,
    and their morale and fatigue improves.

    Over every Objective there will be a marker: a wreath
    surrounding a circle over the critical terrain – the farm complex
    at Hougoumont, for example. On the ground beneath the
    Objective marker there will be a rotating rayed sun marker. The
    circle in the Objective marker will show the flag of the army that
    currently holds the objective. If neither side holds the Objective
    the circle will be gray.

    When you select the highest-ranking commander within the
    Objective Radius, and his side has fulfilled the conditions for
    starting the Objective Timer (see below), information will appear
    in red letters and numbers just above the Toolbar. These are
    the Objective Name, Objective Timer, and, in parentheses, two
    numbers representing the selected commander’s distance from
    the Objective
    and the size of the Objective Radius (both in yards).
    The Objective Timer will count down the time needed to hold the
    Objective and win the Objective Points. When the Objective Timer
    reaches zero, the points and other bonuses will be awarded.

    The conditions for holding an Objective are given on the Map.
    Press “M” to open the Map and place the cursor on the Objective
    symbol. The tooltip will display the information, in the following
    order:

    - The name of the Objective – for example, “La Haye Sainte”.

    - The side to whom the Objective is assigned. “Plyr” means the
    Objective is assigned to you only. “All” means it is assigned
    to both sides.

    - The Objective’s type. Waypoint Objectives disappear from
    the map when won. A Hold Objective can be won many times,
    until Time Limit for the scenario (set by the scenario designer
    in Waterloo Scenarios, or by the player in Sandbox scenarios)
    is reached, or the Score Limit (set by the player in Sandbox
    scenarios) is reached, triggering the end of the scenario.

    - The number of friendly troops within the Objective Radius
    (see “RAD”) required to “hold” the Objective – for example,
    “597 men.” Units with morale of “Uneasy” or less are not
    stable enough to be counted toward this total.

    RAD: The only units that are counted in determining who is holding
    the Objective are those who are within this radius, given in yards.
    If enemy units are also present within this radius, the Objective
    will be neutral until one side outnumbers the other side two-toone
    inside the radius. Only then will the Objective Timer begin.
    The highest-ranking leader inside this radius will win the bonus
    points and other awards when the Objective Timer reaches zero.
    All his subordinate commanders and units will receive these
    awards as well.

    HOLD: This is the number of minutes required to hold the
    Objective to obtain its awards, as follows:
    P: This is the number of points added to the score of the
    commander who holds the Objective for the number of minutes
    required in “HOLD.”

    M: This is the number of Morale points added to all the units

    F: This is the number of Fatigue points added to all the infantry and
    cavalry units subordinate to the commander who won the Objective.

    A: This the number of rounds per man (ammunition points)
    added to all the infantry and cavalry units subordinate to the
    commander who won the Objective.
    subordinate to the commander who won the Objective.

    NOTE: When playing Multiplayer, it is best to move a highranking
    commander into the RAD to hold the objective, to
    maximize the number of subordinate units that will receive
    the morale and fatigue bonuses when the Objective is won.


    Real men dont need manuals :P

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    5 years 8 months ago #10 by Saddletank

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  • Which is why they often fail to take the objective :P

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    5 years 8 months ago #11 by lordhedgwich

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  • Which is why they often fail to take the objective :P


    Well after i put 2 regiments into the church i decided to try an officer and that worked :lol:

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    5 years 8 months ago #12 by Little Powell

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  • I love our manual, and it's a wealth of valuable information. But I agree that you shouldn't be required to read a lengthy manual to understand basic concepts of the game like objectives.

    I probably should have put an objective in the tutorial, I'll look into doing this for the patch.

    With Waterloo, we tried to make it more accessible and more "jump in and play" oriented than Gettysburg. But that's easier said than done with games of this detail.

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    5 years 8 months ago #13 by lordhedgwich

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  • I love our manual, and it's a wealth of valuable information. But I agree that you shouldn't be required to read a lengthy manual to understand basic concepts of the game like objectives.

    I probably should have put an objective in the tutorial, I'll look into doing this for the patch.

    With Waterloo, we tried to make it more accessible and more "jump in and play" oriented than Gettysburg. But that's easier said than done with games of this detail.


    Hey It didnt take me long to kind of figure it out. I think you guys did a damn good job! I saw a review of this game on the "Worth a buy?" youtube channel about 5 min after watching the video i bought it. After playing the tutorial it took me about 20 min to figure out the basics of playing. I think the controls are smart and responsive very nice. Nothing like Combat Mission witch took me about 10 hours of youtube tutorials and 50 hours of gameplay to figure out how to play :woohoo:
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    4 years 11 months ago #14 by Capt Saucier

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  • I don't see anything in the manual about the need to repeatedly hold objectives, when the red clock winds down to zero and then starts over again. Is this certain setting in the scenario that the author is trying to incorporate? Is there a way to know that this particular objective has this goal?

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    4 years 8 months ago #15 by DarkRob

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  • The most hysterical thing when I watch youtube videos of people playing SOW is how many of them do not understand how the objective hex points per minute system works. I always fast forward to the end for the inevitable "WHAT????" "WHY?????" when the major defeat pops up. lol never gets old

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    4 years 8 months ago #16 by voltigeur

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  • one issue since forever is the fact that the minimap objective time display value is incorrect. For instance, in most NSD scenarios the time value shows '0' when in fact it is '1' , ie the objective needs to be held for a minute to get the appropriate points. Confusing to anyone trying to interpret the string of values, for sure.

    Scourge of War multiplayer group
    steamcommunity.com/groups/sowwaterloo
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