DRM

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Garnier44
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Re:DRM

Post by Garnier44 »

They received a ton of criticism for Gamersgate. It took many years for the fanbase to accept it. Many people refused to buy their games for a long time. People hated it. But like anything else, it just takes a while for the consumers to realize that it's not as bad as the haters make it out to be. They're getting better, but they went through a tough road to get there.
I must not have have been watching at that time. But here, I don't think you'd get such a response. I bet a lot of your potential early customers already use gamersgate with paradox titles (paradox leads the historical strategy game market). It also says something that they did get to where they are now.
I used to be too, until I started spending 5 years of my nights and weekends working on them. Attitudes change a lot when it's your sweat and blood in the product.
I respect that. What I wouldn't want to see are potential negative effects of bad decisions because of it.
For example I've seen modding projects where the developers treated the users badly, thinking they should be grateful for the hard work. They may be right, but the result is they lose their fanbase who go off to something better in a competitive world.

Mod communities that thrive are those where the consumers (players) get good treatment (like an easy to use product) and feel like the producers (modders) care about them as a group. I think this can be translated to a for-profit game community. NSD obviously is doing a good job of this so far, as evidenced by this thread itself.
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norb
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Re:DRM

Post by norb »

BOSTON wrote:
A boxed CD would really shine for me! It (CD) would be like money in the bank for when you really need it. I own 3 TC2Ms, 2 are still in the wrapper as backups. Three computers later that 1st Cd still works just great.
Having a CD is something that could happen in the future. We are controlling this thing and we'll see how everything works out. I would love to sell CD's, but the main advantage of the PC is the direct download. It's also a great option for a small indie firm with no capital :)
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norb
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Re:DRM

Post by norb »

Garnier44 wrote:
I respect that. What I wouldn't want to see are potential negative effects of bad decisions because of it.
For example I've seen modding projects where the developers treated the users badly, thinking they should be grateful for the hard work. They may be right, but the result is they lose their fanbase who go off to something better in a competitive world.
I think this team has been around the boards long enough for people to know what they get with us. We have our rep, for better or for worse. I feel we are very responsive to questions and do what we can for the community. Just the fact that the MMG board is completely run by members of this team on their own time attributes to that fact.

I want the best solution, CD Check is the easiest, but not an option in direct download. So it has to be some type of DRM. These are the only two options that I really like. It seems that most here like the 5 install option. But people have to understand that resetting anything is completely up to our discretion. It is not meant for the purchaser and 4 friends. It is meant for 1 or 2 installs on your computers and then 3 for backup.
AP514
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Re:DRM

Post by AP514 »

I would go for option #1......If some one wants to install on another computer at the same time buy another copy. Plain and Simple.
If you have friends over and want them to try the game out well stand behind them and show them the ropes...If they like what they see they will buy a copy. Now you have your Lan group started.. Plain and Simple.


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norb
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Re:DRM

Post by norb »

I would think option one would be best too. You can install it where ever you want. Then when you want to play on a different install, you go to a menu, say deactivate. Then go to the other machine, go to that menu, and press activate. As long as both are hooked up to the net, it's simple and fast.
chris merchant
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Re:DRM

Post by chris merchant »

wow, neither options appeal as both schemes are fraught with technical danger.

However if I had to choose I'd say go with once-off online activation with a documented promise that once sales have dropped off you'll patch out all DRM.

cheers Chris
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norb
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Re:DRM

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chris merchant wrote:
wow, neither options appeal as both schemes are fraught with technical danger.

However if I had to choose I'd say go with once-off online activation with a documented promise that once sales have dropped off you'll patch out all DRM.

cheers Chris
That is an issue and we'll test the heck out of it before we release it. But both are once-off online activation. Neither requires you to be connected to play.

The conflict is that people are used to buying a game and owning it. It's yours. You have the CD, the box, the manual, and you own it. Based on the feedback, people like the 5 install option. So for the sale price of the game, you get 5 installs. Keep them around in case your hard drive crashes. It may not work for us resetting thing, so there is the possibility that if you need more than 5 you have to buy more. We do plan on supporting the game, adding content, features, so I do not feel that it is unreasonable that if you blow through 5 that you pay again. Of course it will upset people. Of course people will use it as an excuse to hack the game. But it is a very fine line between an indie's survival and keeping the customers happy.

I have been thinking about the install model, sell packs of 2-5-10 maybe. That way you know what you are paying for and no one needs to pay for more than they want. But it does mean that rather than buying a new game, people will pool and go in on games.

I also reinstall windows regularly, but I keep all my games and apps on a seperate drive so that I don't have to reinstall them or wipe them. If you reinstall the game to the same computer, I believe that it will not require a reset.

btw - I appreciate everyone's feedback. This is a great thread and it helps a lot to know what everyone thinks about this. Many people are touchy about DRM and feel they have certain rights, as do the developers. So it's really never going to make everyone happy, but we'll do our best to find the best compromise.
Garnier44
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Re:DRM

Post by Garnier44 »

I was thinking about this more and I really am intrigued by how Paradox does it. I wonder if they:

1. Know that the game will be easy to pirate but have such confidence that people are going to like it that they'll end up buying it to get multiplayer and/or tech support and the FAQ.

2. Building on 1, they figure that the more people who try it, even via piracy, the more publicity it gets and the more sales they make in the end.

3. Are completely clueless that their games are easy to copy for singleplayer purposes. (I highly doubt this.)



On the one hand I wouldn't like someone stealing something from me, but if it ends up bringing in even more legitimate sales because more people are exposed to the game, from a business perspective that's a good thing.

A recent overwhelming indie success with the same DRM (or lack of DRM) situation is Mount & Blade.
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norb
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Re:DRM

Post by norb »

When I published with them, they used securom. It was hacked within a week of release.

I've had some less than desirable experiences with them, so excuse my lack of infatuation.
Kerflumoxed
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Re:DRM

Post by Kerflumoxed »

My vote: Option #1.

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