Autocharge test

[Garnier]

Even worse, retreating regiments now stop and autocharge back into melee over and over: melee, retreat, autocharge, melee, retreat, autocharge, melee, retreat, autocharge.

You mean if you click the retreat button, they still melee? That might be a bug, but the auto melee was what we asked for so you couldn't run through or away from enemy units that were too close, you were supposed to either click retreat or melee.

[Jack ONeill]

All,

Have had no problems at all with this after the patch. If my troops, whoever I'm playing, are ordered to retreat from a melee, they run away. I've never seen a short-retreat-turn-melee-retreat-melee sort of thing. Since it is well known I prefer firepower over shock, 99 times out of 100 I'll punch the retreat button every time. THe only melees my lads get into are ones I don't notice, (being at the other end of the battleline or some such), and they're over before I can do anything about it. Also, Garniers right about a unit being TC'd and not charging. I thought everyone knew that. Oh well, Duh for me.

Jack B)

[KG_Soldier]

Chime in here guys.

When a unit retreats from melee (not an order), they often retreat a few yards and then autocharge back into melee. Happens every game, almost. And I've seen units retreat and autocharge 4 or 5 times.

[Turbotay]

The other night, I had a unit that was charged by the enemy when I wasn't looking, and they counter-charged. When I noticed that they left the safety of their fence line and was running towards the enemy, I TC'd them and tried to get them back to the line, but it was too late. They kept auto-charging the enemy, no matter what I did, including hitting the retreat button. In the end, they wound up being bounced around the enemy regiments like a pinball machine as they tried to auto-retreat from one melee and got sucked into another one... eventually they gave up and were captured.

[KG_Soldier]

I'm not complaining, Norb. You did exactly as we asked. SSpoom was against changing it from the start. He's always contended a unit should never be forced into melee, and he makes a decent argument; I just disagree. And a clear majority approves of units no longer being able to run in column through enemy lines.

I don't believe you intended for units to retreat from melee and then autocharge right back into melee with the same regiment which just bettered them, but that is happening, a lot.

Southern Steel, back me up?

To Garnier, I'm not sure if units given the retreat command while in melee will re-autocharge, but I think they will.

[Garnier]

To Garnier, I'm not sure if units given the retreat command while in melee will re-autocharge, but I think they will.

If you can, find out. You can move units out of melee normally if you TC them, and escape, so auto re-charge is the only way to keep them in melee. But if they auto charge even after you click the retreat button as Robinson says, that would be a problem.

[Little Powell]

I'm not complaining, Norb. You did exactly as we asked. SSpoom was against changing it from the start. He's always contended a unit should never be forced into melee, and he makes a decent argument; I just disagree.

It was a great idea you guys had... And when we are deciding whether things like this get put in the game or not, it always leads back to "what did the soldiers do historically?". I can guarantee that if a regiment ran into (or very nearly ran into) an enemy regiment, they were going to either fight it out or retreat which is exactly what happens in the game. If they are tired, low morale etc., they will retreat.. But if their spirits are high, those men are going to fight it out no matter what their commander (you) tells them to do.

[SouthernSteel]

If you consider pre-patch, two units would melee for, say 30 seconds max before one unit would retreat/rout. Now, when that break would normally occur, the two opposing flags separate briefly (melee actually ends although the two units never disentangle), then suddenly turn to re-engage each other. This can happen anywhere from 2-4+ times in a single melee. It's like both units take a second to catch their breath, or they get bored slugging it out with one portion of the enemy line, and so step back and go for another dancing partner.

I agree that this is generally an improvement over how things were before, but there are some minor fixes that could be made, I think. For instance, if your regiment is on a fence or wall, and an enemy regiment 2-3-400 yards away hits charge, your unit will be drawn into charge, regardless of distance. To keep them out, you have to TC the regiment and babysit it, repeatedly giving it halt or countermarch orders, and even that is not foolproof. This would not be as much of an issue if the regiments were about to clash anyway, but people have begun using it to draw units off secure positions (although I know it's not always intentional). This is a re-hash of Robinson's post, but I feel it needs to be known.

Also, somewhat unrelatedly, stacking is still a problem, especially on hills (Culps being the latest example). I lost a firefight against equal units despite having height advantage and equal cover because they could stack 4+ regiments deep and have them all firing simultaneously.

[RebBugler]

For instance, if your regiment is on a fence or wall, and an enemy regiment 2-3-400 yards away hits charge, your unit will be drawn into charge, regardless of distance.

Something's amiss here, unless you guys are modding '400 yd range' weapons. The game works well if the weapon ranges are restricted as they are. You can't charge if you don't have a target (Primary Target) so long charges (over 160 yds) are impossible with the stock specs.

As far as that melee redundancy, that may be a bug...melees should happen once and break away beyond target range...again, maybe the modded long ranges are causing this.

Stacking regiments for more firepower...if the terrain allows 'shooting over'...then this is not a bug. Even shooting uphill allows for 'shooting over'.

Thanks a bunch SS, very informative feedback...now, it's up to us the separate the real bugs from the mod bugs.

[SouthernSteel]

The rifle ranges we have been using are anywhere from 220-250 yards, depending, but it makes sense that you can obviously only charge a unit you can target. Still, that's a long charge.

I know that some "shooting over" was allowed, as you guys mentioned on TS. However, I feel that 4+ regiments deployed in line heel-to-toe is excessive. I know you guys didn't want to limit the gameplay too severely, but this sort of thing can (and has) changed battles. There's no reason to deploy in a full battle line when you can deploy the same brigade in a column of lines (echelon might be a better word) and make it essentially unstoppable. Last night I took 4:1 casualties despite having a similar unit in stats, on higher ground, same terrain, because there were 1200 muskets firing on a 300 man front. Realistically, the terrain would have to be extremely unique to allow shooting over (infantry over infantry, artillery would be more forgiving, obviously).