Retreating units affecting other units!

[Ingles of the 57th]

Retreating units did indeed have an effect on other troops and this should be represented.

Troops retreating in disorder from setbacks further forward in the fighting could be guaranteed to drop the morale of any ‘less-than-vereran’ regiments in the rear with weak uninspiring commanders.

Equally in the less likely event of troops retreating ‘forwards’ rather than ‘rearwards’ some morale could be gained from the likely turkey shoot resulting.

I have always been a bit unhappy though by the way retreating regiments are always peppered by every enemy within range. Except for some notorious cavalry units (Like in the pursuit after Culloden) most soldiers retain a spark of humanity and are normally reluctant to punish further a bunch of lads like themselves who have decided than enough is enough. Just shoot over their heads a bit to satisfy the General.

[Saddletank]

Reb - is it possible to switch off (for retreating units) the need for a clear path? Is that an easy change? Routers don't appear to check for a clear path, they just run straight through anything it would seem.

While Ingles is correct in saying that a unit falling back (even in good order) could worry nearby friendly troops, I don't know if the game's morale system takes that into account. If it already does there's no problem.

[Garnier]

Reb - No Problem here, I was just debating with Mr. logic that seems to think that this is just a made-up-problem-caused-by-my-modding!

He was pointing out that this problem only exists with the mod you made. There are a million things we can mod that would totally mess up the game. This problem wouldn't exist if that option was not mod-able.

As for making units never "retreat backwards" -- this will never be possible, because there is no such thing as "backwards". What if a unit is facing the wrong way? Is backwards the opposite of where they are facing? What if a unit is surrounded? Which way is backwards?

So this problem of retreating toward the enemy is always going to exist to some extent. Even if they removed path-blocking for retreating units, it would make other funny situations happen, like having a huge army retreat somewhere because that is faster than running since they can all move in one mass without blocking each other -- or worse, retreating through even smaller gaps in enemy lines and reforming on the other side.

[Davinci]

He was pointing out that this problem only exists with the mod you made. There are a million things we can mod that would totally mess up the game. This problem wouldn't exist if that option was not mod-able.

And, I’m stating that this is two-separate issues, modding a radius has absolutely nothing to do with enemy units retreating towards my battle-line.

As for making units never "retreat backwards" -- this will never be possible, because there is no such thing as "backwards". What if a unit is facing the wrong way? Is backwards the opposite of where they are facing? What if a unit is surrounded? Which way is backwards?

Backwards is defined as fleeing back towards friendly troops.

Yes, there are a ton of situations that will cause units to turn or face in a different direction, but the bottom-line is still the same, units should retreat back towards their line.

davinci

[Saddletank]

And, I’m stating that this is two-separate issues, modding a radius has absolutely nothing to do with enemy units retreating towards my battle-line.

Wait a minute. We are not talking about enemy units retreating towards your battle line. Your original post (and the subject of this discussion) is your units retreating from an enemy unit that is "bouncing around" the place.

I'm suggesting that that is a problem of your own creation because you modded a radius value in a file that has given unexpected results. My suggestion is to reset that back to what NSD originally had it as and play a few games to see if the problem goes away or is reduced. Is that so hard to do? No-one can offer a magic solution without testing and NSD most likley are reluctant to test for a problem that someone has caused with a mod.

I'm not talking about the direction of where friends/enemy retreat to so please don't take my words out of context.

Another question - why did you increase this radius in the first place? What effect were you trying to achieve or was it a feature you were trying to suppress? I can only see that it is going to aggravate a problem in a battle with close-packed troops and lines, which is what most infantry combats end up as.

As for making units never "retreat backwards" -- this will never be possible, because there is no such thing as "backwards". What if a unit is facing the wrong way? Is backwards the opposite of where they are facing? What if a unit is surrounded? Which way is backwards?

Backwards is defined as fleeing back towards friendly troops.

Yes, there are a ton of situations that will cause units to turn or face in a different direction, but the bottom-line is still the same, units should retreat back towards their line.

And how would the game define that direction? The Union line at Gettysburg was sickle shaped, as was the Confederate line that wrapped around it. How is the game software supposed to know in which direction 'friendly lines' are?

I was in an MP game yesterday on East Cavalry Field where the Union position, at one end of the fight, was effectively a narrow 'sausage' with Confederate troops outside this salient on three sides. Such events are frequent in the game due to the AI always trying to get around the enemy flanks.

How does a computer programme define 'back towards friendly lines' in such circumstances? Even 'away from enemy' is hard for it to calculate. I suppose 'away from nearest enemy unit' is easy to define but that can still give strange results in games where one side has had its flank turned.

[Davinci]

Wait a minute. We are not talking about enemy units retreating towards your battle line. Your original post (and the subject of this discussion) is your units retreating from an enemy unit that is "bouncing around" the place.

Are you being serious, or are you just bored, go back and re-read my first post, it clearly states that the enemy unit is retreating .

I'm suggesting that that is a problem of your own creation because you modded a radius value in a file that has given unexpected results.

Yes, I’m sure that I modded the enemy to retreat forward , thanks for pointing that out for me!

Is that so hard to do?

Absolutely!

Another question - why did you increase this radius in the first place? What effect were you trying to achieve or was it a feature you were trying to suppress?

It prevents the units from engaging in melee which as I’ve stated numerous times, I dislike that feature of the game.

How does a computer programme define 'back towards friendly lines' in such circumstances? Even 'away from enemy' is hard for it to calculate. I suppose 'away from nearest enemy unit' is easy to define but that can still give strange results in games where one side has had its flank turned.

I’m absolutely sure that running towards the enemy lines was a topic that my drill sergeants never mentioned, so it probably isn’t a very good idea.

davinci

[Saddletank]

Davinci - we can discuss this topic without your posts dripping sarcasm, or we can leave you to flounder with a broken game. I'm easy on whichever happens. Maybe you should try not to be so rude to people who are trying to help you.

The fix I suggested is easy to do and test.

And this part of your original post:

This will cause my units to retreat due to the close proximity of the enemy unit, sometimes it will cause several regiments of mine to retreat.

That was the second sentence, making it gramatically in structure the key issue - something happens causing something else to happen - your units falling back, not the enemy unit 'bouncing around'.

I'm quite content to drop out of this discussion now and leave your game screwed up. Bye.

[Davinci]

Maybe you should try not to be so rude to people who are trying to help you.

How, am I being rude , you have stated that you have never seen this problem, but you know how to fix it, how is that possible.
There is a basic instinct in almost all people to retreat away from danger, but you are trying to justify units running towards troops firing at them, while they are in the process of fleeing \ retreating . Is there any particular reason why I should agree with this?

The fix I suggested is easy to do and test.

Once again – my units would not have to retreat due to the radius that is modded, if the enemy units were not retreating forward !

I'm quite content to drop out of this discussion now and leave your game screwed up. Bye.

I’ve been through with this topic, I’ve stated that it isn’t a big deal; this was not a complaint, only something that I found irritating, as stated above.

davinci

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Ok. I think the horse is quite dead now. I'm locking the topic as the conversation is going no place fast.