Hits and Couriers

[KG_Soldier]

I think the key issue about couriers at brigade level for you Soldier is the lack of control. You personally cannot control your reginments as freely, rapidly and as accurately as you would wish, in the way that you are used to doing. To a highly competitive gamer this must be quite an unpleasant shock. But this is fine too; no-one is making courier play obligatory. But please look for reasons closer to home as to why you may not like a game system before labelling it (without any supporting evidence) as silly and unhistoricial, since it plainly is neither of these.

I think you have no idea what I think the key issue about couriers at brigade level is. I posted, several times, that I don't think brigade commanders sent hundreds or even dozens of couriers to their regiments in a battle. They rode around and gave orders or let the regimental commanders make their own decisions (most likely), however, since the ai can't be relied upon to make common sense decisions, playing couriers by brigade and playing as a brigade commander feels less historical to me because of having to send silly couriers (even though they are point and click): "You went past the fence, stop." "Go back to the fence." "No, I SAID STOP ON THE FENCE, NOT IN FRONT OF IT IN THE OPEN; march to the other side of the fence and stay there."

What I have repeatedly said is that playing Hits as a brigade commander negates the need for the courier delay because in order to give effective orders, you have to be pretty close.

"I am struggling to follow the logic of that but if you think its okay for your colonels to all be telepathic and respond to your orders instantly." -- Digby

I think it's okay for a player as brigade commander from the saddle to give orders to his regiments which should be handled by the regiment commander but can't be because of the ai and pathing issues. We all know that regiments even in non-courier games and with their brigade or division commander or whoever is giving the orders right next to them will still sometimes and quite often march past the fence and stop in the open (or many other small things like that). I think correcting these kinds of problems by using couriers feels unhistorical, or I should say more unhistorical. I think playing from the saddle as a brigade commander and not using couriers but letting the brigade commander (the player) also take the roles the regiment commanders making common sense decisions which they should be able to do themselves is more realistic feeling in game, than a brigade commander controlling the nuanced movements of his regiments by courier.

This micromanaging of regiments is required in order for them to be effective: in both Hits /Couriers games and Hits/ No Couriers games and at 100 yards from the saddle and no couriers games. MY POINT IS THAT COURIERS BY BRIGADE EXASPERATES THE PROBLEM AND THUS TO ME MAKES THE GAME SEEM LESS HISTORICAL.

". . . but if you think its okay for your colonels to all be telepathic and respond to your orders instantly, even though one might be a mile away, that's fine, but don't hold that view while saying that brigade level couriers are 'silly' and 'unhistorical'. -- Digby

What? I've repeatedly said you have to be pretty close, and I mean 100 yards or closer, to give effective orders to a regiment while playing Hits. Where you came up with the idea I think it's okay to give telepathic messages to regiments more than a mile away in a Hits game, I have no idea. Why a brigade commander in a Hits game would have a regiment more than a mile away is beyond me.

Perhaps you should look closer to home and figure out why you need to tell me what you think I think and what you think I thought while coming to a conclusion and just address the points I'm making.

"Bear in mind also that time is greatly compressed in this game. Troops march too fast, shoot much too accurately, change formation too quickly and GCM battles with 30,000 men a side are over in 90 minutes. In our courier games battles the same size are done in 150 minutes, which usually includes around 20-40 minutes of approach march. So everything is happening faster and more intensely. Against this rapid rate of activity, lots of couriers doesn't look so wrong as one would at first think. If a corps-level battle can be concluded in 150 minutes when one would in reality take a day (say 10 hours) then the game is running at about x4 real speed. Your 90 minute games make the time differential x6.66. In terms of real time activity couriers are not being sent every minute, but every 4 minutes, or every 7 minutes. That seems a far less outrageous time interval for a brigadier to send a rider to his regiment for a sitrep and a minor change of tactical position." -- Digby

Gee thanks, Digby, I didn't know the games were compressed. I've been playing this game since the first week it came out, and all that time I thought all Civil War battles took place in an hour and a half.

Most of us do not have the time or inclination to play 150 minute games.

[KG_Soldier]

While I agree with you that having too many couriers running about the place looks wrong, it seems a minor point to take issue with when there are far bigger problems with the game, a fantastic game though it is.

At least we can agree this is a fantastic game. The best wargame ever made, in my opinion.

I don't think there are many big problems with this game that wouldn't be solved by letting artillery counter-battery fire be modded separately from artillery anti-infantry fire. Or simply letting modders be able to mod anything they want.

Oh. . . I left out my one big pet peeve: artillery firing through its own side's regiments.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

If a player is looking for regiments that respond perfectly and instantly, then HITS and couriers is most definitely not the way to play the game. Normal difficulty settings the way to go. The whole point of HITS and couriers is to try to experience a 19th century battle as it was really fought. That means time delay between orders and responses, imperfect actions from the various units and dealing with the consequences. Real regiments blundered at times, marching off in the wrong direction, marching too far in advance of the rest of the brigade, retreating too soon, etc. The imperfect behavior of the AI controlled regiments is just a manifestation of that. For myself this game would become incredibly boring if everything went as I wished it.

[KG_Soldier]

No one said anything of the sort.

[SamSmith]

I prefer playing SP with couriers set at division and above and commanding a larger force than a brigade. It's true that there is little or no meaningful regimental AI and, in my opinion, one of the great pleasures (and sometimes great frustrations!) of an HITS game is watching your subordinate commanders interpret and execute your orders. I've been consistently impressed with the AI improvements since 1.4--they make better use of cover, space themselves more reasonably, and just generally seem to have a better idea of what I want them to do. I think that if movement speeds, casualty rates etc. could be slowed down with the AI cycles at the same level the game would reach even greater heights.

If I do feel the urge to command a brigade then I won't use couriers and I'll take the limited camera distance as a fair restriction on my capabilities. It's a game, after all, and it's not as if either approach will yield an absolutely faithful representation of combat, so I choose to do it in a way that doesn't make me want to court-martial every colonel in my outfit/throw the computer at the wall.

On a somewhat unrelated note: when people play sandbox HITS, what kind of battles do you set up? Do you play Hunt Them Down? If so, how many objectives? I've recently switched to playing one objective HTD after a long time playing no objective HTD and I've been really been enjoying the fights that come about.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

I never use objectives. Part of what I find enjoyable is moving to the location that I've been assigned and not knowing if I'll be able to get there before I run into the enemy. And when I do run into him, how long will it be before help arrives.