Infantry running from cavalry in woods

[NY Cavalry]

I purposely put a brigade in woods and it was a hard fight to expel the enemy infantry and then cavalry comes up feints a charge and my boys book it.

Cavalry cannot charge in woods. This is great but why would they have to charge in woods if all they have to do is feint a charge. What is actually happening is (as I suppose) the cavalry charges the infantry reacts and runs then the cavalry gets the check that keeps them from charging into woods.

I had the battalions TCd and in line because I knew that they couldn't be charged, otherwise they would have gone into square while in the woods which is not right, not to mention an impossible maneuver while in woods.

[mitra76]

You cannot know in the AI code the height value of ground where the unit is (the value which defines if the ground can be impassable for cavalry). You can know if you're on defensive ground but not if his value is sufficient for stop the cavalry. So the reactions of unit if to form the square is not possible are not related to the ground.

[Gran Capitán]

Fighting in heavy woods, if the infantry is not in squares, a couple of squadrons can chase down a full infantry brigade, there will be no melee but the infantry will take the checks and pull back in disorder with morale penalty.

As I see it, infantry should not fear to be bothered by cavalry in woods.

[mitra76]

If the map values are correct a heavy wood ground doesn't permit the charge to work, also for a human player, simply because the command is disabled.

If the height value is over the 25 or the defensive ground value is over 21 the charge is impossibile for cavalry also for human cavalry, under both these values is not considered heavy woods or good defensive ground.

[Saddletank]

The same system of defensive values for terrain was present in Gettysburg, and as you know Mitra the KS Napoleonic Mod prevented cavalry from meleeing in woods and dense woods (but not orchards) in that game. I cannot see why the same mechanisms could not be applied to Waterloo. If the infantry is within such a high defensive terrain value then the AI square routine could be disabled as well.

It seems to me that for cavalry "if target is in terrain of defence value X or higher, do not charge" would be simple to add in and for infantry "if unit is in terrain of defence value X or higher, do not form square".

If the current system of fear-checks prevents this then please can you add this change to the upcoming patch as its a key part of Napoleonic combat (squares were not used in woods, cavalry did not melee or charge in woods).

Thanks!

[mitra76]

The same system of defensive values for terrain was present in Gettysburg, and as you know Mitra the KS Napoleonic Mod prevented cavalry from meleeing in woods and dense woods (but not orchards) in that game.

Because already in GB engine the check of ground height of 25 was present (but not the defensive ground check). WL is not different.

If the current system of fear-checks prevents this then please can you add this change to the upcoming patch as its a key part of Napoleonic combat (squares were not used in woods, cavalry did not melee or charge in woods).

Cavalry AI control before start the charge using a specific function if it can start the charge, and during the charge the check is repeated along the path. Check the target location is not done, simply (a part the fact that the test is done always on the present unit location by part of function) because a formation cover more locations and if one location is invalid another can be valid or the unit can be in movement so the location is not static.

For the same reason make this test for square is in any case incomplete:
1 cavalry could not charge because the invalid ground is between cavalry and square or where the cavalry is
2 square flag can be in a good tile at the moment of switch, 1 or more side can be on wood area only when the square is completed
3 square flag can be in a wood are but one flank can be out and the cavalry charging from this direction.

If a modder want put a extreme check can use the canhaltterrain function which check the validity of tiles occupied from the unit, but it checks much more that the simply ground height, so you can obtain a no also when graphically seems possibile. For the stock AI I evaluated the cons were more than the pro, but we leaved the AI moddable for this reason.

[Saddletank]

Thanks Mitra.

Because already in GB engine the check of ground height of 25 was present (but not the defensive ground check). WL is not different.

Can the defensive ground check be added? Despite what you say, it appears to be a simple mechanic and would save all the problems players seem to be seeing.

I think having the cavalry check to see if a target is in very strong defensive terrain is an improvement the team should please consider. Targets being approached by cavalry may well be moving and if a retreating battalion goes into a wood that should stop the cavalry pursuit - which would be an additional nice feature.

I would not have an issue if a unit was partly in a wood but with it's flag was in the open - in that case, in my mind, the unit is not in the wood at all but entirely in the open.

Can the game be modded to simply stop cavalry being capable of fighting in melee within a certain level of defensive bonus terrain? I think that would help.

[mitra76]

You can know if the unit is over defensive ground not his value.

Can the game be modded to simply stop cavalry being capable of fighting in melee within a certain level of defensive bonus terrain? I think that would help.

I can only open a ticket for Norb for export a new function for the AI library in order to give this information.