Expanded Toolbar - Grog

[DarkRob]

DarkRob,
I don't know how to reach any better than this method. I just watched your Chancellorsville video from 2017. As far as I can tell, it's the latest Gettysburg video on the internet. I watch and like your videos but prefer GB games to WL. Won't you please add a GB video once in awhile?

More and more people have been asking for this so I may have to break down and do it. I have to confess though, after getting into napoleonics with Scourge of War Waterloo, civil war combat by comparison seems rather simple and uninteresting to me now.

However, I'm also very grateful for the viewers and subscribers I've gotten since starting the channel, and if they want something bad enough I don't want to not do it.

So I probably will do another civil war Scourge of War video soon. I'll have to give it some thought because if I'm going to do it, I want to do something suitably epic.

[Capt Saucier]

I bought the collectors edition and the problems with cavalry that I posted in the general discussion area seem to have gone away.

However, I cannot get the latest version of the Grog Toolbar to work. I have downloaded the new version from the link above, then saved in my downloads folder and used 7-zip to extract it into the mods folder. After I extract, when I look at the file directory under Mods I see: a directory called Expanded Toolbar V - Grog. Under that I see Graphics, Layout, Logistics and Scenarios all with dates of 6/1/2018. I looked under logistics and see Drills Mod 3/5/18.

When I go to the game, under mods, I get 3 choices 1. Expended Toolbar Grog 3. Full French Campaign 3. Toolbar expanded- Grog. When I start the game and go to mods and check box 1. Expanded tool bar grog I see the explanation that it was the version 5.4 that came with the Collectors Edition. I cannot seem to get the new version to work in the game. I am sure I am doing something wrong. Do I need to delete the old version first? I thought the new version would just replace it and it appears to be in the folder. Any help would be appreciated!

[roy64]

Do I need to delete the old version first? I thought the new version would just replace it and it appears to be in the folder. Any help would be appreciated!

Did you uncheck the Expanded Toolbar - Grog?

I just deselected the Expanded Toolbar - Grog & checked the Expanded Toolbar V - Grog & had no problem.

[Didz]

I bought the collectors edition and the problems with cavalry that I posted in the general discussion area seem to have gone away.

However, I cannot get the latest version of the Grog Toolbar to work. I have downloaded the new version from the link above, then saved in my downloads folder and used 7-zip to extract it into the mods folder. After I extract, when I look at the file directory under Mods I see: a directory called Expanded Toolbar V - Grog. Under that I see Graphics, Layout, Logistics and Scenarios all with dates of 6/1/2018. I looked under logistics and see Drills Mod 3/5/18.

When I go to the game, under mods, I get 3 choices 1. Expended Toolbar Grog 3. Full French Campaign 3. Toolbar expanded- Grog. When I start the game and go to mods and check box 1. Expanded tool bar grog I see the explanation that it was the version 5.4 that came with the Collectors Edition. I cannot seem to get the new version to work in the game. I am sure I am doing something wrong. Do I need to delete the old version first? I thought the new version would just replace it and it appears to be in the folder. Any help would be appreciated!

Including the Grog Toolbar in the original steam download was a nice idea that simply doesn't work. Like you I was left scratching my head over what was wrong, and when i finally worked it out I created a mini-guide for other purchasers that explains how to use mods with SoWWL.

How to use MOD's with Scourge of War Waterloo.

I think the main thing to check in your case is the section on 'Where to put your Mod's' as this folder needs tidying up after downloading the game from steam and installing your mods to get rid of the dross.

You may also need to check the section on prioritisation and make sure that your mods are loading in the order you require.

[Capt Saucier]

Roy

I do not see a choice that says "Expanded Tool Bar V Grog. I have only the 3 choices that came with the Collector's Edition - 1. Expanded Tool bar - Grog 2. Full_French_Campaign 3. Toolbar Expanded- Grog.

I see in the Mods Folder that I have "Expanded Toolbar V - Grog. When I click on that I see Graphics, Layout,Logistics,Scenarios all with last dates of 6/1/2018, that date I downloaded and tried to extract the file. I looked under Logistics and saw, for example, Drills Mod dated 3/5/2018.

Somehow what is in the mods folder is not showing up when I start the game itself. I thought that version 5.4 of the Expanded Toolbar Grog would be replaced by Expanded Toolbar V - Grog, but instead only Expanded Toolbar Grog shows up, with an explanation that it is version 5.4, the version that came on the disc.

Perhaps I should extract to the Mods folder itself instead of extracting to "Expanded Toolbar Grog?

Thanks for any suggestions.

[RebBugler]

Capt Saucier

I believe that the way STEAM handles Modifications is what's at issue here. The bottom line solution is to have only one toolbar enabled and prioritized below all other enabled mods in the Modifications 'in game' window.

I can't believe that original 'Toolbar Expanded' version is still showing up. It was supposed to have been totally eliminated with the first patch as it had CTD issues. With that patch it was announced officially that it was replaced by the latest version that's available with this thread, first post. The 'Expanded Toolbar' available through the 'Collectors Edition' should be issue free but is already two updates behind, I recommend deleting it and use only the latest version as posted on the first post of this thread.

I think all that extracting to and from folders is messing things up. Just manually copy-paste the latest unzipped Grog Toolbar (Expanded Toolbar V - Grog) to the Mods folder, then enable in Modifications. To avoid confusion just delete all other versions of the Grog Toolbar from the Mods folder.

Sorry for this late response but I figured the other responses from forum members were clearing things up...A Big Thanks to Hook, roy64 and Didz. Hopefully I've set things straight now, but we'll see by your next post. Regardless, we'll get it cleared up.

[Didz]

I can't remember what version was shipped with the Steam, as I deleted it once I realised it didn't work, and replaced it with the latest version I downloaded separately. But I do know that the version provided by steam did not include any of the User Scenario's that come with the full version.

[Capt Saucier]

Reb,

Finally success! I have the disk version of the Collectors Edition. I first deleted the old versions, both Expanded Toolbar - Grog and Toolbar_Expanded_Grog. I left the Full_French_Campaign. Then I copied the Zip file above from my downloads folder to the mods folder. At first nothing worked. Then I extracted the zip file. This showed the option in the game, but did not mention the update in the description. I tried checking it then hit the button. However, the game itself did not have the grog toolbar, but I believe the old toolbar that came with the game. At that point, the Mods folder had Grog Toolbar V and the zip file in it. I deleted the zip file, then started the game. I went to the mods tab and moved the grog toolbar to the top choice. Then I saw the description of 5.7 update. I checked the box and hit the button and voila! the game started with the updated toolbar.

I am writing this in case anyone else has a similar problem and also to remember it myself!

Thanks to all for the help.

[Jean Lafitte]

I mean you've already got Didz in here who disagrees with a lot of what you say, so whos to say you're right and hes wrong or hes right and you're wrong?

I'm afraid i have to agree with DarkRob, and as he says after spending most of my life studying Napoleonic combat tactic's and the battle of Waterloo in particular I don't agree with your assessment of Napoleonic tactical doctrine or the actual events that occurred during of the battle. Consequently, if I were pressing for changes they would be very different to yours. But I recognise that my views are not in line with the accepted historical propaganda which was contrived after the battle and presented to the British public at the time and have been passed on to today through historical plagiarism. I only really stick my nose in to these conversations when asked to do so, or provoked by some obvious inaccuracy.

One thing that is perfectly plain from the correspondence of all parties present at Waterloo was that their behaviour and tactical doctrine was largely driven by what we might today call 'accepted best practice', rather than any sort of scientific understanding. For an officer of this period to deviate from 'accepted best practice', was for him to risk censure from his peers and possible banishment from the military and society in general. Therefore the behavior of troops on the Napoleonic battlefield was largely predictable based upon the accepted practice of the nation and period, even if to our modern eyes it seems stupid or ineffective.

Exceptions such as the order to try and keep the artillery with the squares, and the bayonet charge of the 7th Line against a unit of French Dragoons, were just that, exceptions, and notable enough to be highlighted in the correspondence produced at the time and thus picked up by historians.

The vast majority of the correspondence confirms that the officers on both sides played their roles according to the rules. Infantry formed square whenever threatened by cavalry. The cavalry then attempted to provoke them into wasting their fire by demonstrating against the squares, whilst supporting artillery and infantry were rushed forward to destroy them.

That was largely what happened at Waterloo, despite what the British version of the battle claims. That was what Blucher and Bulow saw happening to the Allied centre and what promoted Blucher to break with tactical Prussian tactical doctrine and order Zeiten to advance and rescue the Allied centre before his corps was fully formed. That was also what numerous other officers saw and later recorded all along the Allied front in the mid-afternoon including the Prince of Orange who in the infortunate position of being the only surviving senior Allied officer in the centre of the Allied line and thus faced with the problem of trying to drive off the French skirmishers supporting the French cavalry and has been ridiculed by British historians for his efforts ever since.

In fact, Wellington was one of the few officers who was not to be aware of the imminent collapse of the Allied position because he was trapped in a square on the reverse slope of the ridge behind Hougoumont and couldn't see, or do, a thing.

In fact the Allied army had been in a state of almost complete tactical paralysis for much the afternoon, largely because Uxbridge had spent the British cavalry against D'Erlon's Corps and had nothing on hand to fend off the French. Not helped by the fact that Wellington had failed to agree with the Prince of Orange that the Netherlands Cavalry would be under his command, and so they ignored him and fought their own battle.

I'm convinced that if Napoleon had actually supported Ney's assaults on the Allied centre he would probably have won the battle, and it is a real act of providence that at that precise moment his nerve failed him and his faith in Ney wavered and he refused to make that final commitment that might have secured his victory before the Prussians could intervene.

I've just now discovered this post as well as your other post about how most of the British artillery battery commanders refused the order to temporarily abandon the guns and hide in a square when enemy Cav approached. Thanks very much for your insight.

One thing that constrains the game as a whole is the fact that the original release of the game on the 200th anniversary of the battle was EXTREMELY rushed in order to make that deadline. The result of this haste is that some errors were built into the game. I'm not sure whether all errors have been corrected, but, some have.

[Didz]

I've just now discovered this post as well as your other post about how most of the British artillery battery commanders refused the order to temporarily abandon the guns and hide in a square when enemy Cav approached. Thanks very much for your insight.

Not really an insight, more a case of reading what the people who were there wrote happened, rather than just what Wellington said he ordered.

Mercer was one of only a few battery commanders who left their guns in place during the French assault, and even he ignored Wellington's order to abandon them and shelter in the nearby square of Brunswickers. He states in his journal that looking at the petrified state of the children forming this square he concluded that if his men had abandoned their guns to ran towards it for shelter the whole battalion would probably have panicked and disbanded.

So, he held his position and his men stayed at their guns throughout, fortunately the low bank in front of his battery and the steep slope beyond protected his guns from being overrun.

One thing that constrains the game as a whole is the fact that the original release of the game on the 200th anniversary of the battle was EXTREMELY rushed in order to make that deadline. The result of this haste is that some errors were built into the game. I'm not sure whether all errors have been corrected, but, some have.

Well from my own testing and experience the AI does a pretty good job of coordinating the behaviour of cavalry and infantry, and I've seen cavalry and infantry tactic's in my games that mimic both the WRG tabletop rules and the tactical doctrines described in books like Imperial Bayonets.

Where the AI seems to fail badly is in its use of artillery. I've yet to see any combined arms cooperation between artillery and cavalry, or artillery and infantry, and the AI seems to treat artillery as nothing more than a static bombardment arm, often leaving it completely unsupported and vulnerable too. I suspect this is because that was how artillery was used in the ACW, and nobody found the time to change the AI before the launch of the game.

So, we basically have ACW artillery tactic's being employed alongside Napoleonic infantry and cavalry tactic's, which doesn't really work very well. The artillery really ought to be providing close and mutual support to the infantry and/or cavalry. But without switching off the AI by using the TC button that's almost impossible to achieve, and so far I've never seen the AI even attempt it.