Expanded Toolbar - Grog

[RebBugler]

Update, version 5.75, includes the addition of functions made available by the 1.03 patch:
-Command buttons added enabling artillery to target cavalry
These commands are added to the existing 'targeting pop up windows' on the battery and gun levels

-Infantry battalion 'Screening action' button added
This battalion level command 'action' is coupled with the Guard command (now a pop up window) next to the Volley command

-Aattach and Adetach command buttons added. These are officer functions that either attach or detach all subordinate units.
Execution button located next to the "Zoom" function button
Aattach functions as designed, however, Adetach has issues by my testing (all units won't detach). Please verify this issue and if verified justify rationale for retaining this flawed function, otherwise I'll be omitting Adetach with another update in a week. Personally I see no need for Adetach anyway whereas Aattach is a handy gameplay function and especially vital for scenario scripting.

The Screen Command

This was the testing time consumer with this update. At first I tried to give some player control to it by at least providing formation options...Rejected. Because, Screen turns a battalion into a giant 'Split' battalion which characteristically defaults back to skirmish mode regardless of player input. When I finally realized the nature of this beast I took on the tasks of hiding and elimination of functions on the battalion 'split' toolbar that would only delay and confuse the player with misfiring commands.

Screening Battalion Upsides:
- Very effective at screening and delaying the progress of enemy infantry with little or no player input.
- While screening infantry it avoids too many casualties by constantly attacking and then retreating to avoid flanking fire and melees...I never witnessed it forced into a melee.
- Very effective at driving enemy artillery away while receiving minimal casualties.

Screening Battalion Downsides:
- While it will delay cavalry initially, it will eventually be routed or captured because it won't form a square...Just like 'split' skirmish btns. To avoid eventual DOOM player must cancel Screening actions (same initiation button transformed to Cancel...) when cavalry contact is imminent.
- Fatigue happens fast because unit runs almost constantly balking at player control. Then there's attacking and retreating constantly...Unit refuses to let up, continuing to attack even in an exhausted state.

As mentioned, there will be an update in a week probably eliminating Adetach. Meanwhile, please feedback this week to correct any other issues revealed with this update. Also any suggestions to help fine-tune the 'Screening Actions Toolbar' like eliminating useless or distracting buttons would be appreciated.

Cheers

[DarkRob]

Update, version 5.75, includes the addition of functions made available by the 1.03 patch:
-Command buttons added enabling artillery to target cavalry
These commands are added to the existing 'targeting pop up windows' on the battery and gun levels

-Infantry battalion 'Screening action' button added
This battalion level command 'action' is coupled with the Guard command (now a pop up window) next to the Volley command

-Aattach and Adetach command buttons added. These are officer functions that either attach or detach all subordinate units.
Execution button located next to the "Zoom" function button
Aattach functions as designed, however, Adetach has issues by my testing (all units won't detach). Please verify this issue and if verified justify rationale for retaining this flawed function, otherwise I'll be omitting Adetach with another update in a week. Personally I see no need for Adetach anyway whereas Aattach is a handy gameplay function and especially vital for scenario scripting.

The Screen Command

This was the testing time consumer with this update. At first I tried to give some player control to it by at least providing formation options...Rejected. Because, Screen turns a battalion into a giant 'Split' battalion which characteristically defaults back to skirmish mode regardless of player input. When I finally realized the nature of this beast I took on the tasks of hiding and elimination of functions on the battalion 'split' toolbar that would only delay and confuse the player with misfiring commands.

Screening Battalion Upsides:
- Very effective at screening and delaying the progress of enemy infantry with little or no player input.
- While screening infantry it avoids too many casualties by constantly attacking and then retreating to avoid flanking fire and melees...I never witnessed it forced into a melee.
- Very effective at driving enemy artillery away while receiving minimal casualties.

Screening Battalion Downsides:
- While it will delay cavalry initially, it will eventually be routed or captured because it won't form a square...Just like 'split' skirmish btns. To avoid eventual DOOM player must cancel Screening actions (same initiation button transformed to Cancel...) when cavalry contact is imminent.
- Fatigue happens fast because unit runs almost constantly balking at player control. Then there's attacking and retreating constantly...Unit refuses to let up, continuing to attack even in an exhausted state.

As mentioned, there will be an update in a week probably eliminating Adetach. Meanwhile, please feedback this week to correct any other issues revealed with this update. Also any suggestions to help fine-tune the 'Screening Actions Toolbar' like eliminating useless or distracting buttons would be appreciated.

Cheers

Hey Reb, awesome job as always. I can verify that Adetach is not working correctly for me either. It seems to detach some officers while not detaching others with no real rhyme or reason that I can see. Aattach seems to work fine however as what ever units are detached are all reattached. You can view some of my experiments at the corps and army level with it starting at 29:30 of the video below.

The only minor issue I can spot seems to be if you set more than one battalion from a brigade on the Infantry screen stance, they both move out and deploy in the exact same spot, that is they move their unit flags to the same location and the units crisscross and overlap. I think it would be better if they moved out and deployed side by side to cover more of a front. You can see what I mean by crisscrossed starting at 14:49 of the video.

Other than that everything seems great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kToT9Gi8ZHo

[Hook]

I downloaded the new version of the toolbar but have not installed it or tried it in-game.

I'm not certain what use the Adetach function to detach *all* sub-units would be off the top of my head. The only thing I can see with some units detached and some not is that the detached units would form a reserve while the units still attached would form the fighting force, which might be useful. Perhaps you could restructure the command if everyone is detached but I'd need an example of how you would do this.

I noticed in Rob's video that if you have used Adetach on the corps commander, and it detaches some units but does not detach others, when you click on Aattach you still get the menu with Aattach and Adetach buttons. What happens if you click on Adetach again with some of your units already detached? Does it detach the remainder? If so you can invoke Adetach twice to detach additional units.

Hook

[DarkRob]

I noticed in Rob's video that if you have used Adetach on the corps commander, and it detaches some units but does not detach others, when you click on Aattach you still get the menu with Aattach and Adetach buttons. What happens if you click on Adetach again with some of your units already detached? Does it detach the remainder? If so you can invoke Adetach twice to detach additional units.

Hook

That is a good question. Hang tight a sec and Il check it out.

[DarkRob]

Hook you're right! Using the same corps(VanDamme's at Ligny)additional clicks of Adetach did detach additional divisions. After 3 clicks all of VanDamme;s divisions were detached.

Tried it with Gerard's corps as well and same result.

[Hook]

Then I guess it is a quick way to make some reserves if you don't want the AI to handle everything. You can commit them manually as needed or reattach them to the parent unit, one at a time if you wish. At this point I'd say to keep the Adetach button as it seems rather flexible.

The Screen function for infantry appears to be a quick way to send your light battalion out as skirmishers which then act automatically. Will Aattach on the brigade commander cause them to be recalled? Or do you have to recall them with a direct command on the unit itself? For that matter, will Aattach on a battalion cause any skirmishers to be recalled? This is probably too much to hope for.

I am going to guess that the AI does not invoke the Screen function on a battalion. As for the number of skirmishers, it is probably more than pre-patch but you remember how many skirmish units the Prussians sent out in the full battle as Wellington when you put the Prussians all under AI command, even with the corps commanders having All Out Attack stance.

It would be nice if a screening infantry unit would retreat behind the parent unit instead of fighting until routed, as implied by RebBugler. Has anyone tested this to see what happens? RebBugler did say they would keep fighting even when exhausted.

Hook

[DarkRob]

I agree with Hook, keep the Adetach function. If anything, it's actually better and more flexible the way it is. It gives the player more control and more options instead of the all or nothing approach I think it was shooting for. You can still do that with multiple clicks of Adetach, but having other options as well is cool.

[RebBugler]

Then I guess it is a quick way to make some reserves if you don't want the AI to handle everything. You can commit them manually as needed or reattach them to the parent unit, one at a time if you wish. At this point I'd say to keep the Adetach button as it seems rather flexible.

I think just detaching the commander of the reserve unit(s) would be sufficient.

The Screen function for infantry appears to be a quick way to send your light battalion out as skirmishers which then act automatically. Will Aattach on the brigade commander cause them to be recalled? Or do you have to recall them with a direct command on the unit itself? For that matter, will Aattach on a battalion cause any skirmishers to be recalled? This is probably too much to hope for.

From my testing having a screening btn. attached doesn't affect its screening behavior. What is different though is that its CO will join it and add support.

I am going to guess that the AI does not invoke the Screen function on a battalion. As for the number of skirmishers, it is probably more than pre-patch but you remember how many skirmish units the Prussians sent out in the full battle as Wellington when you put the Prussians all under AI command, even with the corps commanders having All Out Attack stance.

I'm guessing this also, haven't seen it yet.

It would be nice if a screening infantry unit would retreat behind the parent unit instead of fighting until routed, as implied by RebBugler. Has anyone tested this to see what happens? RebBugler did say they would keep fighting even when exhausted.

Hook

Isn't going to happen by my testing. Screen must be canceled before unit can be controlled and situated away from the action to rally and rest.

Thanks a bunch DarkRob and Hook, this is exactly along the right discussion paths for troubleshooting this update. The multiple selection idea does work to some degree, but not enough by my testing. Please verify that when you multiple select Adetach on Division level or above that also all the level 6 (battalions, squadrons, and guns) troops are detached. By my testing only half of these units will detach, or one less than half for an odd number of units. So, if verified by you guys, Adetach is still corrupt for the Division level and above regardless of the number of times Adetach is selected.

Having reported this, and if verified, I'm leaning toward keeping Adetach ONLY on the Brigade level toolbar. By my testing using multiple Adetach commands works perfectly on the Brigade level. Plus, multiple Adetach commands aren't necessary by the player because they can be scripted. The following attachment adds this scripting, 10 additional commands, and is ready for testing.

Unzip and copy to the C:\Matrix Games\Scourge of War Waterloo\Mods\Expanded Toolbar V - Grog\Layout folder, overwrite or rename original...

NA...included with the 5.81 update

Remember, just select Adetach once for testing, and we're just looking for accuracy on the Brigade level. If everything pans out as I'm predicting, the upgrade fix this weekend won't include Adetach on the Division level or above.

Thanks in Advance

[Hook]

I think just detaching the commander of the reserve unit(s) would be sufficient.

Situation: Full battle, WL10. I want to commit Reille but have him keep more reserves than he normally would, and I don't care who they are or want to spend any time thinking about it... just leave it up to Reille. I select him and click Adetach, then give him orders to advance. The detached divisions stay in place as his reserve. He *probably* won't reattach these units on his own, but it is possible and I've seen such things happen. Later I can either reattach them to Reille myself (then reissue Reille's orders so he uses them), commit them manually but leave them detached, or use them for another purpose.

This is how I'd use such a function. Of course if the detached units weren't appropriate for a reserve then I wouldn't be doing it more than a couple of times.

I'd rather have the function and not use it than need the function and not have it, and I don't think it's using any more screen real estate. Of course I could always assign a key command to invoke it.

Hm... one less than half. Does this mean you cannot detach ALL units, but you have to keep at least one unit under the commander? Seems appropriate. I do know that I can manually detach every division under a corps commander and I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Hook

[RebBugler]

I think just detaching the commander of the reserve unit(s) would be sufficient.

Situation: Full battle, WL10. I want to commit Reille but have him keep more reserves than he normally would, and I don't care who they are or want to spend any time thinking about it... just leave it up to Reille. I select him and click Adetach, then give him orders to advance. The detached divisions stay in place as his reserve. He *probably* won't reattach these units on his own, but it is possible and I've seen such things happen. Later I can either reattach them to Reille myself (then reissue Reille's orders so he uses them), commit them manually but leave them detached, or use them for another purpose.

This is how I'd use such a function. Of course if the detached units weren't appropriate for a reserve then I wouldn't be doing it more than a couple of times.

I'd rather have the function and not use it than need the function and not have it, and I don't think it's using any more screen real estate. Of course I could always assign a key command to invoke it.

Hm... one less than half. Does this mean you cannot detach ALL units, but you have to keep at least one unit under the commander? Seems appropriate. I do know that I can manually detach every division under a corps commander and I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Hook

Read this a couple of hours ago and thought NO WAY, the bottom line is that the function must do what it says...Detach All Subordinates. But after some further thought, as you did raise some interesting points of player choice, I'm thinking we can keep the setup as is (with my attachment) and just change the Tool Tip message beyond Brigade level. For example, with the upper echelons the Tool Tip would read: Detach half to be held in Reserve...If it fits, message length is limited. Thoughts?

You're right about the detach command being iffy. It affects player movement of troops but not AI movement. Detached AI controlled units will be called up when their officer needs them, usually when an engagement of his attached troops starts going south.