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Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:56 pm
by BOSTON
AJ

After spending considerable time going through that voluminous artillery manual, I could not even find what you posted! If I feel up to it , I'll do a search in another way, or Larry could do a search. There must be some sort of graph displaying cannister effects.

BOSTON :)

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:08 pm
by Kerflumoxed
Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.

J

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:12 pm
by Southern Son
Perhaps this little book will help.

Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
;)

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:53 pm
by larrytagg
Kerflumoxed wrote:
[/b]

I do not recall ever finding a definitive listing of casualties by weapon type other then a general synopsis stating that approximately 10& of all casualties were caused by artillery. There was, however, a non-scientific study authored by Professor George R. Stewart from the U.C.Berkeley that provided an interesting summation of his research on casualties suffered during Pickett's Charge. (Here is a graph showing some of his data: http://gburginfo.brinkster.net/ChargeCasualties.htm) Much of Professor Stewart's findings are based upon meticulous "speculations" (sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it...something akin to Government Intelligence?). Nevertheless, it does provide for interesting consideration.

The book, published in 1959, is titled Pickett's Charge: A Microhistory of the Final Attack at Gettysburg, July 3, 1863. In Appendix C, Professor Stewart attempts to ascertain the number of artillery casualties suffered by the participating members of Pickett's Charge. Stewart devised a methodology utilizing several base questions. For example:

1. Number of rounds fired.
2. Number of balls in a canister round.
3. Number of troops advancing.
4. Number of troops withdrawing.
5. Accuracy of artillery fired.
6. Number of casualties.
7. Etc.

Based upon the statistical data he acquired, Professor Stewart concluded there were approximately 500 Confederates who were casualties of artillery fire (shell, solid, spherical). He also concludes that approximately 1,000 Confederates were casualties of cannister. All other Confederate casualties he attrributes to small arms fire. (As an aside, he concluded that the vast majority of Federal casualties were caused by small arms.)

Further, there are no definitive medical records extant that can confirm the number of wounds caused by artillery fire.
Thanks, J.
I've seen the 10% number before quite a few times. It's probably good for a ballpark figure for all types of artillery.
Stewart's _Pickett's Charge_ book is one of my all-time favorites, though I don't think it's too much help with canister lethality, since canister wounds are hard to distinguish from musket wounds. (I used Stewart's book to inform my calculations of artillery vs. artillery damage, however, since it is very precise with regard to the Confederate pre-attack barrage, which was almost exclusively aimed at Union artillery!) I'll check it out again and look for canister effects. The 1,000 casualties from canister is a meaty number, but we don't know how many canister rounds were fired.
A good account Scales's attack on Seminary Ridge on the First Day might be a better place to look for pure canister effects. I'll look in David Martin's and Harry Pfanz's books on the First Day.

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:55 pm
by larrytagg
Southern Son wrote:
Perhaps this little book will help.

Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
;)
I haven't looked at this one in a while, and I don't own it. I think I'd better get it. If you have it, and see something in it that would help us, let me know.

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:11 pm
by larrytagg
Amish John wrote:
BOSTON wrote:
AJ

Was that article based on smoothbore or rifled cannons? or both?

BOSTON :)
Not sure, but here's the link

www.civilwarartillery.com/books/GIBBON.PDF
Great book, and thanks for the link, AJ, but it's all about hardware and not about the effects of artillery on infantry.

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:21 pm
by larrytagg
Kerflumoxed wrote:
Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.

J
Yes--interesting that General Gibbon likes canister at 300 to 450 yards. This is farther than most canister ranges I've read. Unfortunately, he still doesn't give us a figure for the dispersion at different distances.

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:36 pm
by Shirkon
I just checked my copy of "Double Canister at Ten Yards - The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett's Charge" by David Shultz and he doesn't give any real casaulty figures but he does state that a good 12 lb Napoleon crew could fire 3 to 4 charges of canister per minute. And a charge could be single, double or even triple canister depending on the range.

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:21 am
by Southern Son
larrytagg wrote:
Southern Son wrote:
Perhaps this little book will help.

Grape and Canister: The Story of the Field Artillery of the Army of the Potomac, 1861-1865
;)
I haven't looked at this one in a while, and I don't own it. I think I'd better get it. If you have it, and see something in it that would help us, let me know.

Sorry, didn't have the book.
I found nothing about effects of artillery on infantry.
But i found this.

Infantry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards.
Infantry: 1400 yards - 100yards at quick step (86 yards in a minute). Time 16 min. 17 sec.
Artillery: 1500 yards - 650 yards, 20rounds spherical case. Time 9min. 53 sec.
Artillery: 650 yards - 350 yards, 7 solid shot. Time 3 min. 29 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 100 yards, 9 canister.Time 2 min. 54 sec.
Infantry : 100 yards -0 yards at double quick and charge. Time 109yards in a minute
Artillery: 100 yards- 0 yards,2 canister.Time 40sec.

Cavalry vs. Artillery: Distance 1500 yards
Cavalry: 1500 yards - 880 yards at a trot.Time 2 min. 48 sec.
Artillery:1500 yards - 650 yards,7 rounds spherical case.Time 3 min. 32.
Cavalry: 880 yards - 440 yards at maneuvering gallop.Time 1 min. 24 sec.
Artillery: 650yards - 350 yards, 2 solid shot.Time 48 sec.
Cavalry: 440 yards - 0 yards at gallop and charge.Time 42 sec.
Artillery: 350 yards - 0 yards, 2 canister.Time 34 sec.

From the book: Arms and Equipment of the Civil War by Jack Coggins.

A tip:
Google for this book:
Field artillery and firepower
by Maj. Gen. Jonathan B. A. Bailey
;)

Re:Artillery numbers

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:53 am
by Amish John
larrytagg wrote:
Kerflumoxed wrote:
Look in Chapter 8, page 249, Bob.

J
Yes--interesting that General Gibbon likes canister at 300 to 450 yards. This is farther than most canister ranges I've read. Unfortunately, he still doesn't give us a figure for the dispersion at different distances.
Isn't the dispersion he mentions "diverging from each other, in the form of a cone, the greater part of the balls being in the centre, and the extreme ones separating about one-tenth of the range" what you were looking for? I guess he's saying, for example, if the canister balls travel travel 100 yards they will disperse 10 yards? Of course I would imagine this would vary by type of tube.