Scourge of War Boards

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:43 am**

We have brought on many people over the years. Our team is much larger than when we started. But a lot of times when people realize the commitment, what we demand of our members, they just do not become reliable. Or there's some parts of what we do, require, that they don't agree with. We have been doing this for a long time, so we know what works for us. It's not always easy to find a right fit. Also many aspects of the process are not something that can be shelled off onto someone else. But everyone once in a while we get the perfect match and then we never let them go

I realize this is the age of instant gratification, but I do not believe our dev times are completely unreasonable based on other games. We've been out since 3/2010 and released our first expansion and are working on another. This is the first time ever we've worked on two projects simultaneously. We have put calls out for testers many times and the response just isn't very high because the commitment is huge. Everyone on the team started out by testing. That's a great way to see if someone fits in and we get to know people and where else they can help out.

So we are expanding as we find the right people, but even so we all end up wearing many hats.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:37 pm**

Suggestion: "Unlock" map-making sooner. (Ideally, as soon as possible.)

The only argument I've seen against this is that it would hurt NSD as a business.

Unlocking map-making would obviously be very beneficial to the community, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. This argument is that it would also benefit NSD.

Some part of NSD appears to think it benefits the company to keep maps locked. This is to hopefully help persuade them otherwise, for NSD's sake as well as the community. We love the game, and have much respect for those who made it -- this isn't meant as a rant or bash against the team/game itself.

Outline:

Delaying the "unlocking" of maps hurts the modding community.

There is little immediate cost for NSD to unlock maps.

Does a stronger modding community help NSD monetarily?
If no, then modding is bad for NSD, so it should hurt modding.
If yes, then modding is good for NSD, so it should help modding.

Yes, it is beneficial, and why.

Delaying map making hurts the modding community.

Preventing mapmaking has hurt the modding community and MP community for what is now 18 months. I can recall at least six instances of would-be modders asking it mapmaking was allowed and then disappearing. Of course those are just the ones who came here and ask. While I've been able to get lots of gamers to buy the game, I can't get modder friends to come here when mapmaking isn't allowed. There are modders out there, but they are being told they aren't wanted.

Meanwhile other indie games that supported their modding communities from the start are getting the free work and community that goes with it. This is the only indie company I know of that openly hurts the modding community. Every other game I've followed, the developers can only talk about how beneficial the modding community has been.

When mapmaking is unlocked, the time that has already been missed cannot be made up. Time cannot be recovered. From this community's perspective, the time modders, including me, have spent making maps/working for other games because we couldn't do it here is value lost.

There is little immediate cost for NSD to unlock maps.

The modding community does not need tools from NSD to make maps. We're not asking for the team to put a lot of effort into something here, we're asking for the built in prevention of map-modding to be removed.

Does a stronger modding community help NSD?

Is it monetarily beneficial for NSD when users create free content/tools/additions for SOWGB?

If it is not, then keeping maps locked makes sense, and I should take down GCM, for example, because it hurts NSD.

If it is beneficial, then how do you draw an arbitrary line and say that some additions such as GCM, or half-way random maps are beneficial, but better random maps, for instance, would not be?

Yes, it is beneficial, and why.

My answer is yes, it is monetarily beneficial for NSD.

Someone who creates something for the game is interested in getting people to play it, and spreads the word to others, some of whom buy it.

This modder probably has friends who are modders, and they will spread the word farther. Modders attract more modders. This is why some modding communities are enormous compared to the rest. The Total War series and the Mount & Blade series, for example, have huge modding communities. They drew in modders early on, and the number has grown exponentially. (I name these two because I have been actively involved in them, I know there are many others.)

Community growth depends on previous community growth. Hurt the community, and it loses something forever. If the community grows, it will grow even more. The more the community grows, the more people know about the game, and buy it. The bigger the community, the more people there are to buy expansions and new games.

By growing the community, NSD makes more money.

Everyone who wishes, please post your thoughts/agreement/disagreement.

:whistle:

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:57 pm**

So does the modding community here hurt NSD in the business sense?

(there's a lot more I want to say but only one thing can be noticed at a time and this is most important.)

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:29 pm**

From a side of player sure I'm all for mapmaking. More maps more fun. From a side of developers I can't tell. I guess they know what's best for their business. If they plan to make new maps and sell them or a new game with new battlefield than it's bad for business and I understand that. Maybe to find some way to allow mapmaking and make profit would satisfy everyone. Anyway, to play a map you need to buy SOW.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm**

If map modding is bad for business then GCM is bad for business, particularly the new random maps that are played most of the time. So I should quit it.

That's what I'm asking.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:58 pm**

People just do not seem to GET IT from the NSD side. Damn us for giving all of you just a great game......that's apparently not enough.......It seems it's always about everyone else and damn the Company/Developers/Team.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:59 pm**

I agree whole-heartedly, with one non-negotiable condition: that I not be allowed to mod a map, EVER! :laugh: Leave it to the folks who know what they're doing. Oh, and that we be patient until the team is ready to unlock map-modding. heh.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:13 pm**

I support Map modding. I think that what Garnier has done for MP has been very beneficial for the game. I believe if he is given the ability to mod maps that he will further improve on MP and all other aspects of the game. The effects that would have would push the game ahead and make profit. I'm sure Norb knows this and that is why he will open maps to modders. What would be the best timing? Now or later? I think now.

I am glad Norb produced a civil war game. I understand that the endeavor needs to be profitable. Ultimately, if these games are not profitable then we will never see them developed. The biggest problem this game has is exposure (I could be wrong). As good as this game is the word hasn't reached the gamer masses.

Again, I support Garnier's open map modding. I think it will increase exposure. It is only my opinion though. It is ultimately Norbs decision.

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:24 pm**

People just do not seem to GET IT from the NSD side. Damn us for giving all of you just a great game......that's apparently not enough.......It seems it's always about everyone else and damn the Company/Developers/Team.

Well, I’m glad to see that you were not in the crowd at the air show!

As I have stated above, I’m divided on this issue, but I also understand that without the maps being unlocked that there is never going to be a very good Modding Community . There is not really a lot to mod at the moment!

So, on one hand the game is extremely moddable, but on the other hand the game restricts the game from being modded!

This world whether we like it or not is all about options , imagine if your cell phone , or cable company only had one choice, that wouldn’t be very good!

We , as a growing community need another option, allow those of us that want to purchase a patch that allows the game to be unlocked have that option!

davinci

Posted: **Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:45 pm**

People just do not seem to GET IT from the NSD side. Damn us for giving all of you just a great game......that's apparently not enough.......It seems it's always about everyone else and damn the Company/Developers/Team.

Most of us do whatever we can to support NSD. Asking for the ability to make/mod maps is not damning NSD. Garnier is trying to make the argument that it would be good for NSD to unlock map editing.

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