Union Retreat

[dale]

Lee's drive into Pennsylvania caused a large response from the governor's plea for volunteer militia, some of whom where used at Gettysburg. I am not sure on the terms of their status, whether it was short term (90 day) or for longer terms or whether they could be used outside the state.

In terms of the South fighting a purely defensive strategy this was a point of major debate from Jefferson Davis on down. Stonewall Jackson had advocated for a unique defense. He envisioned that the defensive forces would be small, elite groups stationed at various points around Virginia. They would be activated during a Northern invasion. They would be highly mobile, capable of striking hard and retreating from superior forces. His Valley campaign OOB resembled such a force. With it he was able to defeat 3 separate Union forces and make a legend for himself. It is interesting to note that he never abided a static defense. Lee and Jackson both looked for every opportunity to attack whenever possible. To attack, even when facing superior forces was the best way to thwart an enemy's battle plan. By choosing when or where to attack they could seize the initiative on the battlefield. I think that Jackson's idea could have worked. It would require less resources since it did not require a large static army. The enemy would have to deal with threats from all quarters and would spend a good deal of men deployed in protecting lines of communication and supply routes. The forward momentum of the main force would be slowed due to supply disruptions and uncertainties. The downside of the plan is that there would have to be superior leaders for the strike forces and that trying to coordinate efforts between separated bodies of troops rarely turned out happily for the overall commander. I am sure that Jefferson Davis would have gone catatonic if this plan had been fully implemented.

[ironsight]

dale, i basically agree with just about all of your comments. Keep in mind Jackson made a legend of himself in the Shendoah Valley because he was on his own soil, knew the terrain and best how to use it to his advantage. If one looks at all the earlier major Eastern battles (including the Confedrate invasions of the North) of the Civil War, the Confederates did best on their own territory. Stands to reason, familiar ground, easier resupply and reenforcements. Attacking is a bit easier accomplished under those conditions.

However and unfortunately the same was not true in the Western Theatre. Just plain bad generaling and lets say maybe a little bad luck too.

At the beginning of hostilities, the Confederate high command at one time even entertained the idea of a single grand Army which was quickly re-thoutgtout and then downsized to basically two major forces, one out West under Sydney Jonhston and one protecting Virginia under the other Johnston with a lesser force around New Orleans.

When Johnston was wounded and put out of commission during the Penisula Campaign, Lee assumed command of the ANV thereby putting into motion his legend and fame by his successful attack strategies albeit keeping in mind once again, this was done in familiar Virginia.

In the history of warfare, troops always fight harder and are willing to die in order to protect their homeland and families from foreign invaders. Same was true for Lee's forces fighting in Virginia and the same was true for the Yankees fighting in Maryland and PA.

[dale]

It is always better to be a counter puncher if you have the advantage of interior lines and a transportation network. Starting at Bull Run the Confederates used the railroad to bring Jackson's forces to the battle. Jackson's troops were transported part of the way from the Valley to McClellan,s north flank at the Seven Day Campaign. The Confederates prepared their defenses in Northern Virginia by constructing plank roads through the forests and by constantly updating their maps.

Unfortunately for the South, the railroad rolling stock was limited and the railroad was not kept in repair. When a calvary raid cut railroad lines in southside Virginia in 1864 it took months to bring the system back to use again. The disadvantage of fighting in your home territory is that any incursions by raiding units are doubly effective in disrupting your communications and supply systems. The Union tried for several years starting with Hooker to have massed calvary raid outside the AOP's flanks to cut the Richmond - Valley railroad links. Horrid calvary leadership squandered this resource.

The other disadvantage in fighting in your home territory is that you lose resources by having the enemy march through your territory. Ideally, you want to use the enemy's resources to sustain your own troops like Sherman did. By late 1864 Virginia could not get enough grain to the horses in the ANV to supply the calvary and equally important, the horse drawn artillery. Some calvary units had to fight as infantry. Fighting on Virginia soil had totally destroyed the economy as well, sending the price of just basic commodities like wheat and meat to astronomical levels.

All things considered I would rather fight in the enemy's home territory. The destruction witnessed in Virginia during the first two years of campaigning I am sure influenced the high command's decision to bring the war to the North if possible.

[ironsight]

Your points are well taken. Virginia was ravaged by continual warfare there. Look at the town of Winchester which changed hands numerous times during the war. That had to take a toll on the citezens there and the surrounding countryside.

I agree in principal there are advantages to fighting on the enemies territory IF the invading force has the supplies, realistic and logical means to do so. For Antietam and Gburg, the Confederate supply was there but IMO it was not realistic or logical to engage an enemy superior in numbers with overall better artillery on their own ground.
I know Lee was hoping for quick victories with his invasions leading to an end of the war. Those invasions were long shots based primarily on his past experiences and confidence.
I can understand why Lee invaded Maryland if nothing else to 'test the invasion waters'. What i can't understand is why Lee thought he could do it again in Pennsylvania considering he came real close to losing it all at Sharpsburg.
Sometimes all the confidence in the world is just not enough.

As far as the Southern food and grain issue is concerned later on in the war, once again limited foraging incursions into lightly defended Northern areas might of accomplished the same thing as living off the land would of been during an invasion ...but with much less chance of destroying or whittling down the NVA during a major invasions.

Lee at Appomatix if the surrender terms were not of his liking was prepared to take his forces into the hills and continue fighting by means of guerilla tactics. Whether this would of been feasable or practical we'll never know.

[JC Edwards]

All

When trying to define our well natured and likeable ironsight and his relationship to any of us, please, refer to the following:

You know, hearing you talk
about monkeys and trees...
I remember the time
during a cannonade on the peninsula.

There was one tree
for the men to hide behind.

It was a skinny little tree
and the boys, they fell in behind it...
in a long thin line
which ruled just like a pigtail.

It swayed to one side, then the other.

A shell came this way,
the line swayed that way.

A cannonball came that way,
the line swayed this way.

It was a thing to see.

George, what has that got to do
with what we're talking about?

General.

Carry on, gentlemen.
Don't let me interrupt the revival.

General, you're just in time.

I've been trying to persuade George here
of the modern, scientific...
theories of Charles Darwin.
The theory of evolution.
The notion that all mankind
is descended from the ape.

He does not subscribe.

- Is that so?
- I do not.

I've ordered General Armistead to stop
filling his head with heathen blasphemies.

Now, you are to devote
your reflective moments to study...
in the matters of military significance.

Ordered me.

Or perhaps the General would enjoy appropriating
some more of this fine Pennsylvania whiskey here.

Absolutely.

- Would you care for?
- No, thank you Jim.

Surely the commanding general
shares my deep feelings of disgust...
at this simian suggestion.

I suppose there's some pretty smart folk
that take Darwin for the Gospel.

They would not be invited to join
George's ever-shrinking circle of friends.

General Longstreet, sir.
I intend to lay this matter to rest
for once and for all time.

Oh Good.

Perhaps there are those among you who
think that you are descended from an ape.

I suppose it's possible
there are those of you...
who believe that I'm descended
from an ape, but...

I challenge the man to step forward...

who believes that General Robert E. Lee
is descended from an ape.

- Here, here.
- Not likely.

All science trembles before
the searing logic of your fiery intellect.

So, exactly how many of your relatives
are there that are apes?

[ironsight]

JC!
What does that diatribe have to do with the price of beans in China? :S B)

[JC Edwards]

ironsight wrote:

JC!
What does that diatribe have to do with the price of beans in China? :S B)

[ironsight]

JC Wrote:

All i can say is i miss Hancock being around to take up the flak as my wingman! :ohmy:

By the way anyone know why he's not posting anymore?

[JC Edwards]

ironsight wrote:

JC Wrote:

All i can say is i miss Hancock being around to take up the flak as my wingman! :ohmy:

By the way anyone know why he's not posting anymore?

Not sure what's become of young Hancock........I do believe he lived in that area of Washington State that was affected by the heavy snow storms back in December.

Hopefully we will see him at some point.

[ironsight]

Yeah JC, i noticed Hancock stopped posting during those NW Pacific storms too!
Lets hope and pray he along with his family are OK!