Artillery is frustrating the hell out of me

[Taiaha]

I'm posting this here because although some of what I'm seeing looks like it might be bug/design issues, I also have the feeling it might simply be due to my own incompetence (and I'm more inclined to go with the latter explanation). So any insight would be appreciated.

One of the only things I really didn't like about TC2M was how fiddly it was to organize the artillery. Sadly, I'm seeing some of the same behavior evident here. So I'd appreciate any guidance on the following:

1) Units spend an inordinate amount of time faffing around with the placement of their guns, moving them after every shot. The limited amount I know about artillery in the CW suggests that this is highly unrealistic. TCing them seems to make no difference.

2) Limbering/unlimbering part 1. Now I know there is supposed to be a delay. And I'm guessing that having no animations associated with this process is a way of saving valuable memory real estate. However, part of the frustration is that there is no feedback of any kind to indicate that the order has been received and is being acted upon. When you tell your battery to retreat by recoil, for example, you get a series of position indicators showing where they will retreat to. But with limbering/unlimbering, quite literally nothing happens.

3) Unlimbering/limbering part 2. Sometimes this just doesn't seem to happen at all. Last night, for example, I was replaying the Division tutorial since I made such a crappy score on it the first time. That battery wouldn't limber up to save itself. At first I thought it might be the AI assuming that enemy troops were too close to permit the maneuver to be completed safely. But when the Federals had been driven back and I wanted to reposition the battery, they wouldn't move. I TCed them. I un-TCed them. Nothing.

4) Manual targeting a bit dodgy? This seemed to work well in the artillery scenario and I think it is a welcome addition. But it didn't work as well in the above division scenario. The battery was very reluctant to switch targets (ironic given their willingness to roll their guns all around the field). Moreover, I seemed to be getting a strange situation. Later in the fight I directed the battery to engage in counter-battery fire with the Federal artillery. One of my guns had actually retreated by that point. Two of the remaining guns targeted the artillery. One gun kept blasting away at an infantry unit. Again, tried all possible permutations of the TC thing I could imagine.

As I say, some of this behavior (the endless gun re-shuffling) I remembered from TC2M. There just doesn't seem to be a way to tell your artillery to get in a goddam line and stay there!

So, what am I missing? Is it designed to be this frustrating?

[ADukes]

Taiaha wrote:

2) Limbering/unlimbering part 1. Now I know there is supposed to be a delay. And I'm guessing that having no animations associated with this process is a way of saving valuable memory real estate. However, part of the frustration is that there is no feedback of any kind to indicate that the order has been received and is being acted upon. When you tell your battery to retreat by recoil, for example, you get a series of position indicators showing where they will retreat to. But with limbering/unlimbering, quite literally nothing happens.

There is a status icon on the gun's toolbar.

3) Unlimbering/limbering part 2. Sometimes this just doesn't seem to happen at all. Last night, for example, I was replaying the Division tutorial since I made such a crappy score on it the first time. That battery wouldn't limber up to save itself. At first I thought it might be the AI assuming that enemy troops were too close to permit the maneuver to be completed safely. But when the Federals had been driven back and I wanted to reposition the battery, they wouldn't move. I TCed them. I un-TCed them. Nothing.

Low morale? Out of Ammo?

As I say, some of this behavior (the endless gun re-shuffling) I remembered from TC2M. There just doesn't seem to be a way to tell your artillery to get in a goddam line and stay there!

The "Hold to the Last" order is your friend.

[RebBugler]

I hear your frustrations, however, after playing and testing SOW for months, I've found the artillery much more manageable than TC2M. Neverfear, the game will evolve, and the artillery along with it.

I too miss the entire firing/limber sequence, but sprites are maxed out as is. Eventual 64 bit only designs will be the only future for this feature to become reality.

Regarding control, watch your canister level, once empty, guns will not move toward the enemy. Get your total ammo level below 100 then re-supply. Guns will then cooperate better.

Thanks for your comments...

[Taiaha]

Again, thanks for the quick reply. Although I really appreciate the quick responses part of me feels like telling you guys to take a break from the forums! Spend time with your families!

I did not notice the status indicator, so I will look for that.

Both morale and ammo seemed to be fine. I think the battery might have used up all its shrapnel by that point but all were firing shell. I'll play this again and pay attention to the status bar and see if they are actually even inclined to limber up.

I wasn't sure about Hold to the Last. I thought from the name that it was, well, a last ditch defense kind of thing! I will try it, but not to appear too nitpicky, from a realism point of view, how many batteries had to be given the order to "hold to the last" simply to ensure that they stayed in a straight line?

[Los]

The manual is your friend:

"Hold to the Last: This button orders the selected commander to hold his present position position until his units are routed.

Hold:This button orders the selected commander to hold his present position position and not venture beyond a 50 yard radius."

That may account for a certain amount of squirreling around in place.

Also:

"Limber the gun/Unlimber the gun:....it takes about a 30 second delay to prepare to unlimber/limber"

Then I guess you add to that the actual act of limbering and unlimbering and however long that takes.

[Gfran64]

I noticed when playing the MP demo that the Mexican Stand off issue was still present. If 3 guns of a 4 gun battery have been captured then I do not think that the 4th gun would remain functional and shoot at the other 3 guns at 15 to 25 yards. I think that their morale would be in the toilet and they would abandon the gun. I also do not think that the infantry would man the other 3 guns when charging, they would clear the battery of enemy soldiers and then go back and man the gun or disable them.

So I think what would be neat is that when a gun is captured by infantry you should get a choice if you want to man the gun or disable it. If you man it then it costs you that number of men in a gun crew. If you disable it then it costs you 2 or 3 men and then the gun disappears.

Could you consider this for a patch.

Buying the game today!!

Regards,

Greg B)

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Gfran64 wrote:

I noticed when playing the MP demo that the Mexican Stand off issue was still present. If 3 guns of a 4 gun battery have been captured then I do not think that the 4th gun would remain functional and shoot at the other 3 guns at 15 to 25 yards. I think that their morale would be in the toilet and they would abandon the gun. I also do not think that the infantry would man the other 3 guns when charging, they would clear the battery of enemy soldiers and then go back and man the gun or disable them.

So I think what would be neat is that when a gun is captured by infantry you should get a choice if you want to man the gun or disable it. If you man it then it costs you that number of men in a gun crew. If you disable it then it costs you 2 or 3 men and then the gun disappears.

Could you consider this for a patch.

Buying the game today!!

Regards,

Greg B)

I fully agree. Although I am quite good at capturing batteries, it has always seemed a bit 'gamey' to have, pause, to reform the regiment, pause, give it the location of the next gun, pause, double time, pause, charge! Better, would be to give a regiment the initial location of the guns to overrun and then automatically capture all the guns within 10-20 yards, if the regiment makes it to the guns. This would also make it a bit harder to capture the guns as a sizeable portion of the battery would be fighting off their attackers, not just 15 men, (they always loose). As it is, I usually use my smallest regiment available to capture the guns. I couldn't do that if I was facing 60-90 men. This may be a programming nightmare :ohmy: but perhaps it could be considered for a later addition.

Once captured, it would indeed be nice to have the option of spiking the guns. Almost always, I would rather keep the men rather than the guns.

[Slick Wilhelm]

I've played through the artillery tutorial three times, and I have yet to be able to get my gunners to fire at the Union brigade that is maneuvering to flank me on my left. They insist on firing on the closer regiments that are on my right, fighting it out with my infantry.

I have taken command, and then clicked on the green "manual targeting" button, then selected one of the approaching union regiments. But my boys refuse to start firing in that direction until it is already too late.

In all three attempts, I ended up having to limber up and run away, or retreat, or retreat via recoil.

I have read the manual, so I *think* I know what I'm doing.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Taiaha]

I also continue having trouble selecting targets. I'm not sure if in order to make it work it is enough to TC the entire battery, or whether you have to TC each individual gun. But TCing the battery and trying the manual targeting command either doesn't work at all (for reasons that remain opaque) or, worse, results in only some of the guns firing at that target. As far as I can detect this happens even when I have completely free fields of fire. If I don't have a clear field, it is some obstruction that apparently the AI can see which I can't. . .which isn't much use, really!

And if you have to TC each gun, well, sod that!

OK, back to the battle.

[norb]

Slick Wilhelm wrote:

I've played through the artillery tutorial three times, and I have yet to be able to get my gunners to fire at the Union brigade that is maneuvering to flank me on my left. They insist on firing on the closer regiments that are on my right, fighting it out with my infantry.

I have taken command, and then clicked on the green "manual targeting" button, then selected one of the approaching union regiments. But my boys refuse to start firing in that direction until it is already too late.

In all three attempts, I ended up having to limber up and run away, or retreat, or retreat via recoil.

I have read the manual, so I *think* I know what I'm doing.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

If you feel the targeting feature is not working correctly, please send a zipped save with a description and directions to sowsupport at scourgeofwar dot com. If it's a bug I'll get it in the patch.