Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Here we solicit numbers from members concerning anything regarding historical numbers that affect a Civil War simulation: hit rates, rates of fire, casualty rates, movement rates, you name it. The idea is that we're really trying to get the numbers for the game right.

pareserves
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Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by pareserves »

Last night I played in a scenario where I had a regiment of skirmishers going up against a battery of artillery. My "fresh" skirmishers were routed in seconds, and were not but 100 yards from the muzzle of the barrels. Historically speaking, I have read accounts (paraphrasing of course) which described skirmishers against artillery was like trying to shoot mosquitoes with a rifle. Just my two sense! Have a good one guys!
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Little Powell
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Little Powell »

pareserves wrote:
Last night I played in a scenario where I had a regiment of skirmishers going up against a battery of artillery. My "fresh" skirmishers were routed in seconds, and were not but 100 yards from the muzzle of the barrels. Historically speaking, I have read accounts (paraphrasing of course) which described skirmishers against artillery was like trying to shoot mosquitoes with a rifle. Just my two sense! Have a good one guys!
Usually skirmishers can hold up pretty well against arty. It must have been a green regiment or they had a green commander, or both.
BOSTON
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by BOSTON »

At less than 100 yds the skirmishers are getting a dose of double cannister x the number of guns in canister range that are also dishing out single and double loads. Ya, I would think their morale and fatique levels were taking a beating and decided to get out of Dodge. :unsure:

edit; page 85 of the manual says cannister is used within 350 yds and that double cannister automatically kicks in at 75 yds. Can anybody clarify if these numbers are correct or a misprint? I know for a fact that cannister in the game kicks in at 200 yds or less, but not absolutely sure if double cannister kicks in at 100 yds.
Last edited by BOSTON on Tue May 25, 2010 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jim
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Jim »

We are working on some improved code and factors to model this situation more accurately. It will be either in this patch or the next one.

-Jim
"My God, if we've not got a cool brain and a big one too, to manage this affair, the nation is ruined forever." Unknown private, 14th Vermont, 2 July 1863
hurrah for the union
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by hurrah for the union »

thats close. 100 yds is enough for the artillery to use canister or sharpanel. canister is strong igainst any types of troops it kills a pack of troops at once but skirmish formation can deacrese its damage. sharpshooters wont hold forever. if you are heavily bombarded just reatret dont sit back. and alwyas use atlast 2 regiments to attack artillery. its best to charge and close in the disttance to thier guns to capture them and use them to put canister to thier artillery. but be ready tp pay the price for capturing them with infantry because i once moved a regiment with 345 troops they charged and when they got close they got shot in a very close range and routed with 214 troops remaining.
Jack ONeill
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Jack ONeill »

All,

As a side note, double and/or triple cannister was rarely used, especially by the Southern gunners. The prevailing tactics of the day called for double or triple cannister rounds only if the enemy was close to over-running the guns. Double and triple charges would burn out the lands, (grooves), in the barrels of rifled guns and sometimes would cause over-heated guns to burst, killing/wounding the crews. The Southern gunners were suceptable to this due to the somewhat lower quality manufacturing of their cannon. My cent-and-a-half.

Jack B)
American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

"Molon Labe"
83pvi
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by 83pvi »

A bigger problem with triple canister than destroying the rifling would be the liklihood of breaking the axle of the carriage.
;)
Last edited by 83pvi on Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jack ONeill
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Jack ONeill »

83pvi,

Also a good point.

Jack
American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.

"Molon Labe"
Kerflumoxed
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Kerflumoxed »

83pvi wrote:
A bigger problem with triple canister than destrpying the rifling would be the liklihood of breaking the axle of the carriage.
;)
An interesting observation. I wonder if an axle could actually be broken by firing the gun? In a No. 1 carriage (for a 6-pdr. gun), the iron axle-tree was 2.5" by 1.5"; in the No. 2 carriage (for 12 pound guns) it was a minimum of 3" x 3". The former weighed 116 pounds and the latter weighed 122 pounds. Take quite a bit of force to "break" either one, I would think. Just speculation on my part.

J
Jack Hanger
Fremont, NE
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"Boys, if we have to stand in a straight line as stationary targets for the Yankees to shoot at, this old Texas Brigade is going to run like hell!" J. B. Poley, 4th Texas Infantry, Hood's Texas Brigade
Olszowy
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Re:Skirmishers vs. Artillery

Post by Olszowy »

83pvi wrote:
A bigger problem with triple canister than destrpying the rifling would be the liklihood of breaking the axle of the carriage.
;)
An interesting observation. I wonder if an axle could actually be broken by firing the gun? In a No. 1 carriage (for a 6-pdr. gun), the iron axle-tree was 2.5" by 1.5"; in the No. 2 carriage (for 12 pound guns) it was a minimum of 3" x 3". The former weighed 116 pounds and the latter weighed 122 pounds. Take quite a bit of force to "break" either one, I would think. Just speculation on my part.

J
I know this is an old article, but just joined and what the heck. Having seen some bizarre malfunctions with modern artillery and rifled cannon I would think a lot would depend on metal fatigue, barrel elevation, double/triple load, or charge size. In this case the extra force released is going to go somewhere with large tubes being more in danger then smaller. If the bands holding the tube to the carriage don't fail, maybe the weakest part of the axle if any fatigue, or lose a wheel, or break the trail or flip over backwards. Especially true if the gun cannot recoil due to rough ground and the trail digs in. Not every gun was employed on level ground and fired in accordance with regulations. Canister is bad in any event. However, I just read an article from the Champion Hill fight where a Union unit, McGinnis i think, moving through ravines faked out a rebel battery by "charging" then dropping to the ground as the rebel guns fired the canister over them, then took the guns. That would not work in SoW unless the ground were geospatially accurate enough with LOS to allow that.
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