GCM Canister effectiveness

[Willard]

G -

Would it be possible to tweak the effects of canister in the next GCM update?
I am not requesting a return to the uber-canister impact of the original stock game where 1 canister round would result in 40+ K/W/M.

That being said, canister has been downwardly tweaked to the point where it is ahistorically ineffective.
I have had two recent instances where the impact has been fairly obvious.
Last night, we played a 2v2 random game with Beef, Soldier and XNS.

As you can imagine, XNS decided it was a good time to column charge up hill against a 4 battery gun line (16 guns in total) spread out in width of 300 yards. He began his single regiment column charge from a distance of about 600+ yards, all of which was uphill. The end result was that he took 3 guns before I could TC and move a nearby regiment, in line about 150 yards away, to charge and rout his regiment.

Now, not for nothing, I think 16 guns should be able to easily hold their own with minimal casaulties against a single regiment charging in column up hill over 600+ yards of open field. I won't even comment on the historically stupidity of trying to do this. That being said, this column was able to take 3 guns before I was able to hit it with TC'd regiment. It didn't rout to due to any canister hits, it routed because it had lost men in taking/replacing 3 gun crews and it was fatigued to the point that my fresh regiemnt w/ leader could rout it.

I have done the math on this before and posted it elsewhere but will include similar math based upon what I have seen in GCM. Assuming for gameplay purposes that gun crews get off 1 round per minute, at canister range (at/less 200 yards) for 16 guns, this would result in approximately 80 casualties at a rate 5 casualties per shot (16 X 5 = 80) at max effectiveness. If we upped the rate to 10 per shot, that results are 160 casualties. Assuming in either scenario a 50% effectiveness fire rate at that range, you are looking at 40-80 casualties per minute. Factoring in the closing distance from 200 yards for a regiment event TC'd/column/Doubletime, a battery should be able to get off 2 rounds (not factoring double/triple canister loads) before the regiment could hit it. Based upon those calculations, we would be looking at max effectiveness/range anywhere from 160-320 casualties based upon 2 rounds per 16 guns. At 50% effectiveness, we are looking at anywhere from 80-160 casualties. This doesn't factor in any casualties received from 600-200 yard engagement ranges, impact in column formation, fatigue/morale malus, etc.

Now I know everyone thinks I want artillery to rule the battlefield. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that we have some semblance of historical results to counter obviously gamey ploys. Based upon the above, I think everyone (with the exception of XNS) would agree that it is ridiculous that a regiment could not only survive such a scenario with minimal losses but also take 3 guns before finally being routed not by arty fire but by melee with a regiment.

I believe the regiment in question had at least 400 men. Based upon my conservative math - at canister range only - he should have lost anywhere from 80-160 men BEFORE HE DID ANY DAMAGE TO THE BATTERIES as he was in column. That is a loss of 20%-40% without firing a shot - and again not accounting for any damage between yard 600-200. It is hardly sustainable and very likely the regiment should/would have routed. Instead, the column basically snaked its way up hill unharmed because the GCM mod allowed the exploit.

Now I don't know what the rate of canister effectiveness is set at now. However, in the best case scenario I am seeing max 5-10 hits, most often it being less. There was a similar battle last month where XNS column charged his division against KG SPOOM on Benner's Hill. I shifted 2 batteries of 12pders to back up KG SPOOMS infantry. The guns started out about 500 yards from the fighting and as XNS advanced uphill he closed to within canister range. The guns did have a firing lane of about 150 yards and were deployed behind a wall. Even with XNS's entire division packed in and under constant fire at canister range for about 15 minutes, his losses were minimal. Most of his regiments were losing about 5 per shot by my calculations. That isn't enough to blunt an attack or pose a serious deterrent under normal circumstances, and when factoring in the closing distance of TC'd columns it wont do anything. The only reason XNS didnt move up closer is because he got caught in a flank attack and basically surrounded by SPOOM and I. He should have been destroyed but instead he was able to retreat most of his troops as the arty was basically ineffective at what should have been its most effective range.

Anyway, I think the long range effectiveness is ok, although I greatly prefer the counterbattery fire in the current stock game over GCM. If you can take a look at canister and perhaps increase its current effectiveness by 1.5 or 2, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Willard

[Garnier]

I've said this before. The effectiveness of different kinds of ammo, and their ranges, are in munitions.csv which can't be modded in MP.

The only thing I can do is adjust arty effectiveness overall, and adjust musket range.

Because solid shot is by far the most deadly, I had to balance for that since it is the only thing anyone should use once they know this.

The only remaining way to adjust canister is to shift musket range up or down (in this case, down).

[Sharpe55]

Would anyone object to upping the effectiveness of arty SLIGHTLY? Sure solid shot would become a little more effective but so would canister. Overall arty effectiveness still depends on where artillery is placed. I'm sure historically if a battery was placed in a really good position it could/would do some significant damage.

I know that artillery can already cause some significant damage, but I say congrats, you're using it right.

Once again, I want to highlight the word SLIGHTLY increase effectiveness.

[kg_sspoom]

I wouldnt have a problem with it.
What about increasing crew to stock levels would that help?

[KG_Soldier]

Perhaps increase the reload rate a little and leave everything else where it is.

[Sharpe55]

That wouldn't really help with the canister problem though... maybe increase effectiveness but decrease reload?

I'm pretty sure I've been involved in this conversation before but what would increasing crew size do again?