Formations

[RebBugler]

The 'Battle Columns' discussion is always interesting to me. This was my first mod for TC2M, and they've been present on my toolbar ever since. Only prob, ya can't use the + to determine spacing, so, I use various spreads so when they form into lines they don't overlap, or, you can hit line and they adjust before engaging.

Skirmish talk...yep, needs lots of work IMO. I'd like a unit in skirmish formation to have three parts and would avoid wheeling, opting to refuse the right or left flanks. Presently, I find the long skirmish formations cumbersome at best, yet some folks, like Sarge, use them extensively...and brag about their advantages.

And now...nappy skirmises...let the designs begin!

[Jack ONeill]

RB, (and All),

I use the column of Divisions all the time in the NapMod, on both sides. By 1809, the Austrians were trying,(with much resistance from the hidebound quarters), to implement the formation changes developed by the Archduke Charles, arguably their finest Commander. He had studied the French Army in detail and had come up with various ways to emulate them on the Battlefield. The war came before he could fully finish the task, but columns of attack, like the French, could be seen at Aspern-Essling and Wagram. By the end of the Nap Wars, all the Continental Powers were using some variation of the column of attack, screened by skirmishers. (For those ready to pounce, England does not consider herself a "Continental" power.)

Skirmishers - the skirmisher issue will probably never be solved. I don't think the game engine has the ability, (yet), to really do justice to it. Yes, the skirmish lines ARE too long and unweildy. Thats why I developed the Skirmish Mod out there now. Shorter, easier to use, and they get a slightly longer range, (20 yards), then the line troops to reflect their somewhat better training. I like it because it works better than the stock one. It even showed up in the "Gattensburg" series that Gunship did. Mine gives one at least the idea of using skirmishers as a screen as you advance or hold a position.

Jack B)

[Saddletank]

For those ready to pounce, England does not consider herself a "Continental" power.

And quite right too! Great Britain is NOT a European country!

[gunship24]

Can you go for both concepts? Part of a battalion skirmishing and entire light units skirmishing?

Yea that would be the prefered options although given the choice i agree that the entire unit skirmishing would be better, though maybe a more compact skirmish formation is required.

Jack im going to take a look at yours, and see whats its like. I will also have a go at my part battalion skirmishing and see what that is like. It might be that the whole unit skirmishing is only the real practicle options. I did modify the stock one also not only in the gap distance of the reserve but i also changed the sprites so they didnt show the fire animation which was present in the stock one, so like Dav says it is possible to do that.

The column of divisions i will keep the same since it looks like its correct the solid block of men is just a fantasy.

Im unfamilar with ACW skirmishing, i have seen formation diagrams from old texts that show entire regiments in skirmish screening lines of infantry behind, if that was common i can see why the skirmish formation in the stock game is for the whole unit, was this the normal behaviour?

Realisticaly the smallest unit size for the engine to cope with is the battalion, so trying to adopt skirmishing used in the napoleonic wars is outside the scope of the game, hence my new idea but i can at least give it a go.

[Jack ONeill]

Gun,

Yes, by all means go for it. Anything is better than the stock skirmish line.

During the ACW, practically, Commanders did both, putting out both entire units and individual companies as skirmishers. Most likely the explanation would be the situation at the time and the size of the unit needing to be screened. Best example I have is related to Genl. Buford, 1st. Day at G'burg, where he is quoted as saying "...they'll be coming at us in the morning, skirmish lines 3 deep..." (Bruce Catton, The Civil War). Given that is was a single Brigade which hit his lines first, I'd say the Reb skirmish line was probably companies drawn from the Line Regiments, rather that a whole, single Battalion/Regiment. Would have diluted the manpower too much during the attack. My ha'penny.

Jack B)

[Saddletank]

Im unfamilar with ACW skirmishing, i have seen formation diagrams from old texts that show entire regiments in skirmish screening lines of infantry behind, if that was common i can see why the skirmish formation in the stock game is for the whole unit, was this the normal behaviour?

Realisticaly the smallest unit size for the engine to cope with is the battalion, so trying to adopt skirmishing used in the napoleonic wars is outside the scope of the game, hence my new idea but i can at least give it a go.

I'm unfamiliar with ACW skirmishing as well but since the American troops used European drill manuals I would think skirmishing is skirmishing at around that time period wherever you go.

Whole regiments might skirmish right down to a couple of platoons, depending on the task at hand. Its like how long does a piece of string need to be? Answer, just long enough.

I think including some smaller units within your Napoleonic brigades to represent Voltigeur, Chasseur, Light or Jager companies, or bigger units of converged companies is a better and more managable means of representing this. If a brigade has, say, three such units, the player can deploy as many as he thinks he needs. There should also be Leger/Light battalions on hand for more massed screens if they are needed.

Remember the purpose of a skirmish line is to keep up a continuous, if low volume, annoying fire, with the more skilled soldiers trying to pick off officers, thus in every drill book you will find reference to something like half the men carrying a loaded musket at any one time and drills sspecifying slow fire rates and fire-and-retire tactics so that soldiers shoot, then fall back to relaod in relative safety.

For this reason I don't like the long thin stock skirmish line in SoW. I think a more realistic skimish formation would be quite deep, about as deep as your average column of divisions formation and a bit broader so it forms more of a blob-shaped cloud and much less of a line. This formation would be much easier to change direction with, including to quickly run away if threatened.

[Jack ONeill]

The attachment screen0046_2012-04-26.jpg is no longer available

S,

Yes, exactly. One of the advantages of the SR8 troop ratio is the smaller Voltiguer units taking up less space on the Battlefield. The "Cloud" aspect of skirmishers would be quite correct. Witness the desscription from somewhere regarding "Clouds" of skirmishers swarming forward, annoying the enemy lines which had no effective means of reply. DaVinci and I discussed that a while back, but I can't quite figure out how to do it.

Definitely smaller units as skirmishers. Again, the British/KGL Divisions which typically had no more than a company of Rifles attached. So, given the ratio, a 100 man company would give you 12-13 sprites on the field. Same ratio with a convergered Voltiguer battalion gives you 37-38 sprites. I should post a pic of the two skirmish lines - stock and my modified one. Give a good idea of the difference.

There - I think that's a good one of mine. French Voltiguers falling back firing, under pressure from the Austrian Foot. note the relatively small amount of space they take up. Don't have a good shot of the stock skirmish line in action.

Jack B)

[Jack ONeill]

S,

Note - quite correct here - Skirmishers generally operate in sets of two, one man loaded at all times, alternating firing.

Jack B)

[Kerflumoxed]

For the record: (Source: Jack Coggins, Arms & Equipment of the Civil War; William Gilham, Gilham's Manual for Volunteers & Militia (1861 Edition); U.S. War Department, U.S. Infantry Tactics,(May 1861 Edition):

"A regiment might fight with all its companies abreast, forming a long, double line of men - or one or more companies might be held back as reserve or formed on the flanks. One or more companies were usually sent forward as a skirmish line. In a divisional attack, whole regiments might be assigned as skirmishers. Later in the war skirmish lines grew heavier, in some cases consisting of half the regimental strength, the remainder being held in line of battle as a reserve. Troops in formation under fire but not actually in action were often ordered to lay down. The officers usually remained standing. Skirmishers sought to keep down enemy fire and harass his ranks with musketry. They fought in open order, taking advantage of the ground. Skirmish lines might be 400 to 500 in advance of the main formation." (Souce: Coggins p. 23)

Here is a site that includes a link to the original manual (as above) for those who wish to hear (or read) directly from the horse's mouth which is always the best source. Unfortunately, unless one is familiar with Civil War tactical doctrine, it can be very difficult to understand. http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... p?t=105259

For the above reason, here is a brief but thorough dissertation on Skirmish Tactics by a name familiar to any old-time reenactor/living historian worth his salt. Please note the documentation in Kent's essay, a traditional oversight by some less than thorough "scholars"! http://www.mvep.org/skirmishold.htm

Also, please note, unlike some postings on this and other forums, this posting includes documented references. Unlike some postings that just state, "This is recorded in many first-hand accounts of battle, etc. etc. etc." implying that "Because I say so, it is correct and undeniable!" At best, the latter "documentation" is merely hear-say and cannot be confirmed by the interested reader.

Hope you enjoy,

J