Brigade Combat Tutorial

[Jack ONeill]

All,

Going on about this a bit - I only recently was made aware that the AI CANNOT see everything, and is limited to what it can see from the saddle. Makes ALL the difference. I wondered why I could occasionally "surprise" the AI with a flanking manuver or something.
As Brother Tank mentioned, switch to a Horseback level view only and you will be AMAZED at what you can't see. Being surprised really sucks.

Laiz,

If you have never served in the Armed Forces, you may not know the phrase "Order, counter-order, Disorder." This game excells at that. It is up to YOU, as Commander on the ground to pay attention and react accordingly. My God, I can't tell you how many times I've gone into the attack, drums flying and flags beating, with strong units covering each of my flanks, looked around and found I'm all alone and about to be swamped by superior enemy numbers. AND I receievd no order changes like they did.
Now, get back in there, young man, and lead from the front! Theres way more craziness awaiting you. :laugh:

Jack B)

[LaissezFaire]

I really don't see how a single brigade -- with several regiments exhausted from having to double quick in column along a road -- can withstand a frontal assault combined with a flanking assault on its own. I suppose it's certainly possible, but the point is that it shouldn't have to be that way with friendly units there to support you.

I regularly use the "to me" button in the game to re-locate my general, so I know about seeing things from the saddle in the game. Again, there was no terrain to obfuscate the Confederate advance from the front, and by the time the issues were ordered for Meredith to withdraw and relocate, you could see the Confederates advancing on the clear terrain in front of the Union line.

Besides the point, the game tells you to go stand to the left of Hall's battery precisely because Confederate troops are coming at the Union line from that direction.

Again, I appreciate that the AI is not all-seeing or all-knowing. But I also don't expect it to take totally irrational and unreasonable moves in a clear combat situation. Again, if I had screenshots, this really wouldn't be much of a discussion.

And Jack, with all due respect, I was the only Union commander paying attention and reacting accordingly -- hence why I shifted my brigade's position repeatedly and tried to make the best out of a terrible situation. In the end I didn't win out, and while I am a novice playing the game, I cannot ignore the part the AI played in the result.

Imagine playing a game of basketball where someone on your team is trying to shoot baskets in your own net. Whatever rationalization someone might devise for why they are doing it, the fact they are doing it will have a negative impact on how you enjoy the game, no?

[Marching Thru Georgia]

LaissezFaire wrote:

When Meredith moved away from the oncoming Confed assault, the Confederates were not miles away or even several hundred yards away. The attack was imminent and you did not even need to be sitting in a saddle to see the frontal assault of at least an entire brigade coming directly at Meredith.

Meredith may have thought he was greatly outnumbered and retreated to better ground. Suicide wasn't on his to do list. The AI does exactly that sometimes. It's not a fool. If your command was within 100 yd. of the arty that would explain why it didn't pack up and move too. It was trying to buy you some time to get out of the way.

And Jack, with all due respect, I was the only Union commander paying attention and reacting accordingly -- hence why I shifted my brigade's position repeatedly and tried to make the best out of a terrible situation.

Good, you and your men earned their pay that day. The whole point of command is to deal with unanticipated actions. Your fellow brigade commander got cold feet and retreated. You didn't forsee that and were forced to deal with the situation. Although Meredith was given his rank for who he was, SOW generals are required to earn their stars.

There are elements of the game that can be legitimately criticized, but the quality of the AI is definitely not one of them. Play it again. Meredith may have a completely different reaction the next time.

[LaissezFaire]

With all due respect, your rationalizations contradict themselves. In the first instance, Meredith retreated to "better ground" to avoid suicide and then in the second instance you say he got "cold feet" and was a political appointee.

I don't really buy either explanation. The ground a couple yards behind my line wasn't "better" and, essentially, changing into Column formation and marching away from an imminent enemy attack isn't too far from suicide in my book. Considering Meredith ended up messily attacking the Confederates after the actual battle started anyway, I can't really believe self-preservation was on the menu.

As for the guns buying me time, I doubt it. This wasn't a 300 spartans scenario. If Meredith had stayed put, it was highly likely that Meredith, Hall and Cutler could have all had a round of victory drinks after a successful battle. Things went bad when they didn't have to, and it was the AI's fault.

As for Meredith being a political appointee, again, I don't think you need to be a West Point graduate that when your flanks are supported and you have guns nearby, you don't march away from an oncoming assault. There's a sharp difference between earing your position through networking versus being a complete and utter moron.

I have no problem with being made to "work" for my stars, but I'd much prefer to earn them against a smart, challenging and flexible AI, not because the AI controlling my friendly units has no idea what it's doing and makes a totally defensible position untenable.

I can see this discussion going around in circles so I'm going to hold off on posting more until I try again tonight when I get home and am able to post screenshots.

[Garnier]

Three people have said (in one form or another) that the AI uses HITS view, but it is not at all clear to me what this means. I do not think the AI takes screenshots of the game from the saddle view and analyzes them.

So what does "the AI using HITS" actually mean?

I would expect the AI to see everything the player can see from any camera view. In other words, units that are not spotted by enemy cannot be seen, but all units that are revealed can be seen.

Is this not true?

[NY Cavalry]

I will make a general observation about the AI.


I have played the game 2 years now and regard the AI as pretty good. Do not be deceived by that statement it is still an AI. It does not play to the level of a human player, but if you want that level try MP, the game supports it.

The AI has some quirks and it is best to play with and against it see how it works. You will be most concerned about the AI commanding troops that are on the same side as you are. This takes a little more time to get used to. Which commanders have which tendencies. There is a way to send couriers to commanders on your same level that they will react to. It is a simple process.

The Ai is a good opponent and is not wholly predictable. Certain things are predictable, but it will throw some curves in too. If you want to master the AI you can, except there are several ways to play the game with different difficulties. The game is not a repeat of itself. Every battle will be different and challenging in its own way.

In conclusion the AI is a good opponent. If you want a nail biter challenge play MP. Even in MP there are several different ways to play. You could try GCM or play with the HITS group. Even then there are more ways to play still. You could try one vs one on army command.............

There is not one template with this game, but can be played in several ways.

If that is not enough there are plenty of mods available where you can fine turn your preferences.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Garnier wrote:

So what does "the AI using HITS" actually mean?

It means that the AI sits in his saddle and views the battle from that level. He does not have a god's eye view of things. When a brigade AI commander makes a decision, he does so based on what he can see from the saddle. The same holds true for the division or corps commander. I don't know if the brigade commanders communicate what they see with their superior instantly or with some built in delay. I never see couriers going back and forth between AI commanders during the battle, only to give initial engagement orders.

Watching the AI commanders is quite fun. When a brigade or division commander is ordered to engage, he will ride forward to see what he can from a decent vantage point. He then formulates a plan and issues the appropriate orders. When a brigade is engaged and the enemy sudden comes into view on his flank, there is often a bit of delay and then one or more of his reserve regiments will march to the danger point. He doesn't wait until the enemy is within musket range to act, but when the enemy becomes visible from his saddle or perhaps from one of his regiment's point of view.

[Garnier]

It means that the AI sits in his saddle and views the battle from that level. He does not have a god's eye view of things.

It is not at all clear what this means. They obviously do not only see what human commanders physically see when using HITS mode, because the AI is not looking at a picture. They are somehow given data on what enemy units are visible.

I assumed they got the same data the player did, in other words, whatever units are "spotted" by a given side, all of that side's AI commanders are aware of those units. If this is not true, and the AI only sees a subset of the units that are spotted, what determines exactly what they can see?

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Garnier wrote:

I assumed they got the same data the player did, in other words, whatever units are "spotted" by a given side, all of that side's AI commanders are aware of those units.

I imagine the AI uses line of sight, just like we humans. How long the AI commander keeps this information when the enemy unit is no longer visible is a question I can't answer. I am fairly certain that an AI commander that is not in view of the battle has no knowledge of what is happening even though his subordinates do. A corps commander will usually sit well away from the battle. He only reacts and does something when an AI or human player requests help. However, if that AI corps commander is present on the battlefield, he will send for his other divisions very quickly, often at the start of the fighting. This is why the AI is not very good at using his reserves. This also applies to division commanders who for some reason sit behind a hill out of view of the action.

[Garnier]

I think what you mean is that the AI commander only sees units that are in line of sight to the commander according to how the game calculates line of sight. This has no similarity with human players using HITS.

A human player using HITS can see units that are 2000yd away and outside the player commander's technical line of sight, as long as they are spotted by some other friendly unit. Also, a human player might not see a unit behind some trees even though it IS in the player's commander's technical line of sight and would be visible if the player hit the T key so the trees were not rendered in the way.

Thus is not correct to describe what the AI sees as being like what humans physically see when they restrict their camera.