Artillery Post 2, Please read 1 first
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:01 am
Artillery Post 2, please read Artillery Post 1 first.
What is and what was.
“So great was the loss of horses, there being over a hundred in this battery killed in battle, that during the last year of the war they were unhitched from the guns after going into action and taken to the rear for safety.” Edward A. Moore, Rockbridge Artillery, ANV.
"A converging storm of iron slammed into the batteries
from front and flank. Wheels were smashed, men knocked down,
horses sent screaming, to stay in the field was to sacrifice
units needlessly."
"I could hear the bones crash in my division
like glass in a hail storm."
“The battle over, orders were sent around for ammunition-chests and cartridge-boxes to be refilled.” General James Longstreet, Antietam
"A savage continual thunder that cannot compare
to any sound I ever heard." Confederate soldier at Antietam
"Nothing could be heard but the infernal din of their discharge, and nothing seen through the smoke but a great ascension of dust from the smitten soil. When all was over and the dust cloud had lifted, the spectacle was too dreadful to describe. The Confederates were still there -- all of them, it seemed -- some almost under the muzzles of the guns. But not a man of all those brave fellows was on his feet, and so thickly were all covered with dust that they looked as if they had been reclothed in yellow. `We bury our dead,' said a gunner grimly." Ambrose Bierce, Union battery, Chickamauga.
I make no pretences that I have the remotest idea as to what happens under the hood of this game. I am not sure I even want to know. So I have no preconceptions as to what is possible and what is not. I do know that the infantry and cavalry sides of the game function pretty well considering the number of moving parts, albeit the infantry functions better. The re-supply side seems less realistic and the artillery seems somewhat realistic up until the accuracy of the shot. The questions then become, what are the major differences between the game's use of artillery and the historical use of artillery, can the differences be accounted for by the programmers and are they actually desired by the community at large.
The differences as I see it between the historic use of artillery and the game's use of artillery is that long range and counter battery fire is significantly less effective than it actually was. Federal artillery for the most part was superior to Confederate artillery due in part to their manufacture/rifling, ordnance, fuses, and abundance. Longstreet complained throughout the war about the Federal’s “superior metal.” The old axiom is also true that infantry hates artillery. The effective placement of artillery many times stopped attacks before they even started.
"We often hear the sneering criticism that at such and such a battle but 1 or 2 per cent of the enemy's loss was due to the fire of artillery. Any such test is entirely erroneous. Not only do the guns exert a tremendous moral effect in support of their infantry, and adverse to the enemy, but they do far more. They often actually preclude heavy damage from the enemy by preventing him from essaying an assault against the position the guns occupy. Then, again, by forcing the enemy to seek cover, they eliminate their antagonists to that extent...Let us hear no more of artillery efficiency as measured by the number of its victims." Colonel Wise
An attacking commander seeing his objective being reinforced with a battery or 2 of artillery had to be a somewhat dismayed. “The human cost for this attack just got a lot more expensive.” There are reports of Union commanders at Fredericksburg advanced their troops on Marye’s Heights and suffering only enough casualties to substantiate that they fulfilled their orders before ordering a retreat.
Dale and Ironsite stole some of my thunder. Artillery did not move well through the woods at all. Currently troops and artillery move at about the same rate.
Confederate batteries had only 4 horses per gun and Federal batteries 6, but they both fatigue at the same rate when double quicked from one place to another.
Guns were not typically re-supplied until after the battle. As Dale and Hancock point out, the rate of long range fire was slowed to conserve ammunition and improved the aiming but in the game the rate of fire is consistent. Ammunition wagons were not brought anywhere near an active battery. The caissons went to the wagon which was typically in a very rear area. I was not able to find any logistical information as to how troops re-supplied. I don’t know if some munitions where held in a forward distribution area or the unit that was low had to go the whole way to the rear.
Each gun had 3 ammunition chests, 1 with the limber and 2 with the caisson. If the limber or caisson was hit and exploded then that gun would lose one third or two thirds of it available ammunition. The current TC2M game does not factor this.
Should men be lost in a battery they would be substituted for with the reserve men from the rear area of the battery. The current game just decreases the men for the gun. I’m not sure if it changes the loading time or not.
Batteries typically utilized many different types of ordinance on a target. Currently all batteries tend to fire the distance appropriate ordnance.
Batteries tended to concentrate fire at selected enemy batteries/guns, (Dale), to destroy or force their redeployment. TC2M fires at the entire battery.
The loss of horses was a consistent problem for batteries. If you loose a lot of horses you are going to have a difficult time moving your battery. This is also not accounted for.
Occasionally a gun would be damaged, (most likely a wheel), and would be out of service for some time do to repairs. Sometimes guns would explode. Neither of these eventualities occurs in TC2M.
Once a gun reached the ramming stage of the loading process, the round could not be changed. If the gun targeted some new troops within canister range, it had to fire whatever round was in the gun and then reload with canister. Currently TC2M, and I’m not absolutely certain, seems to be able to change rounds during the loading process.
Also, as Dale points out, there were other options available to gunners if they ran out of canister. Fuses could be cut very short. Solid shot directed obliquely down your flank had to be at least as deadly as canister to your front. Ordnance is also not able to be shared within the battery. Currently, if a guns runs out of canister in a close in fight, it retreats.
Artillery was never left unguarded. If it was stationary, (especially in the woods), it would have deployed pickets. The unit had many men armed with cap and ball pistols. TC2M many times leaves artillery totally unguarded.
Guns, limbers and caissons were abandoned on the field if the unit had to make a hasty retreat or lost more horses than could pull the objects to the new position. TC2M does not account for this.
Guns barrels weighed about 800 lbs and the gun itself about 1700 lbs. Troops would not have been able to move a gun any significant distance on flat ground. It would not have been able to be moved at all up a steep incline or in the woods. TC2M guns can be moved by troops anywhere on the map even if the crew is exhausted.
Finally, I bet you guys are happy to hear that, this concerning the capture and use of enemy guns. If a battery is attacked from behind, it would not have been able to wheel the guns 180 degrees and fire. Remember that your horses, limbers, caissons and reserves are back there. TC2M, as currently configured, allows this.
I have not been able to find any descriptions of infantry using a skirmish formation to capture or fire on guns. It would seem to make sense that the spreading of troops would decrease their losses in such a circumstance but I cannot find it documented. It is more often described as a probing/delaying formation. I have found references to troops lying down just before the guns fire, then rising up quickly and advancing until the next "Fire!" and then lying down again.
I have not been able to find in the literature any account of where an artillery piece was captured and used against the enemy for any significant length of time. Plenty of pieces were captured, especially by the ANV, but few were used in combat immediately. Remember that certain tools were needed to fire the gun; sponge/rammer, vent pick, vent brush, lanyard, fuse punch and saw, gun site, and friction primers. Should the artillerymen have retreated with these implements then the gun would not have been operable. These were not point and shoot weapons. Calculations had to be made and tables needed to be read. Given the literacy rates, not all soldiers would have been able to load and fire a captured gun. Dale points out that some units were taught how to fire a gun or cross trained on artillery from both armies but I would suggest that they would still be at a green status as they would be firing the guns for the first time provided that they had the equipment to do so.
If an enemy gun was captured then it could be attached to an artillery unit. Once attached, it would be operated by the reserve artillerymen of that battery and therefore have a much higher operational grade. It would also have been able to be limbered and moved by that unit's extra horses. TC2M does not allow this.
Well gentlemen that is it for post 2. Post 3 to follow.
Regards,
Greg
What is and what was.
“So great was the loss of horses, there being over a hundred in this battery killed in battle, that during the last year of the war they were unhitched from the guns after going into action and taken to the rear for safety.” Edward A. Moore, Rockbridge Artillery, ANV.
"A converging storm of iron slammed into the batteries
from front and flank. Wheels were smashed, men knocked down,
horses sent screaming, to stay in the field was to sacrifice
units needlessly."
"I could hear the bones crash in my division
like glass in a hail storm."
“The battle over, orders were sent around for ammunition-chests and cartridge-boxes to be refilled.” General James Longstreet, Antietam
"A savage continual thunder that cannot compare
to any sound I ever heard." Confederate soldier at Antietam
"Nothing could be heard but the infernal din of their discharge, and nothing seen through the smoke but a great ascension of dust from the smitten soil. When all was over and the dust cloud had lifted, the spectacle was too dreadful to describe. The Confederates were still there -- all of them, it seemed -- some almost under the muzzles of the guns. But not a man of all those brave fellows was on his feet, and so thickly were all covered with dust that they looked as if they had been reclothed in yellow. `We bury our dead,' said a gunner grimly." Ambrose Bierce, Union battery, Chickamauga.
I make no pretences that I have the remotest idea as to what happens under the hood of this game. I am not sure I even want to know. So I have no preconceptions as to what is possible and what is not. I do know that the infantry and cavalry sides of the game function pretty well considering the number of moving parts, albeit the infantry functions better. The re-supply side seems less realistic and the artillery seems somewhat realistic up until the accuracy of the shot. The questions then become, what are the major differences between the game's use of artillery and the historical use of artillery, can the differences be accounted for by the programmers and are they actually desired by the community at large.
The differences as I see it between the historic use of artillery and the game's use of artillery is that long range and counter battery fire is significantly less effective than it actually was. Federal artillery for the most part was superior to Confederate artillery due in part to their manufacture/rifling, ordnance, fuses, and abundance. Longstreet complained throughout the war about the Federal’s “superior metal.” The old axiom is also true that infantry hates artillery. The effective placement of artillery many times stopped attacks before they even started.
"We often hear the sneering criticism that at such and such a battle but 1 or 2 per cent of the enemy's loss was due to the fire of artillery. Any such test is entirely erroneous. Not only do the guns exert a tremendous moral effect in support of their infantry, and adverse to the enemy, but they do far more. They often actually preclude heavy damage from the enemy by preventing him from essaying an assault against the position the guns occupy. Then, again, by forcing the enemy to seek cover, they eliminate their antagonists to that extent...Let us hear no more of artillery efficiency as measured by the number of its victims." Colonel Wise
An attacking commander seeing his objective being reinforced with a battery or 2 of artillery had to be a somewhat dismayed. “The human cost for this attack just got a lot more expensive.” There are reports of Union commanders at Fredericksburg advanced their troops on Marye’s Heights and suffering only enough casualties to substantiate that they fulfilled their orders before ordering a retreat.
Dale and Ironsite stole some of my thunder. Artillery did not move well through the woods at all. Currently troops and artillery move at about the same rate.
Confederate batteries had only 4 horses per gun and Federal batteries 6, but they both fatigue at the same rate when double quicked from one place to another.
Guns were not typically re-supplied until after the battle. As Dale and Hancock point out, the rate of long range fire was slowed to conserve ammunition and improved the aiming but in the game the rate of fire is consistent. Ammunition wagons were not brought anywhere near an active battery. The caissons went to the wagon which was typically in a very rear area. I was not able to find any logistical information as to how troops re-supplied. I don’t know if some munitions where held in a forward distribution area or the unit that was low had to go the whole way to the rear.
Each gun had 3 ammunition chests, 1 with the limber and 2 with the caisson. If the limber or caisson was hit and exploded then that gun would lose one third or two thirds of it available ammunition. The current TC2M game does not factor this.
Should men be lost in a battery they would be substituted for with the reserve men from the rear area of the battery. The current game just decreases the men for the gun. I’m not sure if it changes the loading time or not.
Batteries typically utilized many different types of ordinance on a target. Currently all batteries tend to fire the distance appropriate ordnance.
Batteries tended to concentrate fire at selected enemy batteries/guns, (Dale), to destroy or force their redeployment. TC2M fires at the entire battery.
The loss of horses was a consistent problem for batteries. If you loose a lot of horses you are going to have a difficult time moving your battery. This is also not accounted for.
Occasionally a gun would be damaged, (most likely a wheel), and would be out of service for some time do to repairs. Sometimes guns would explode. Neither of these eventualities occurs in TC2M.
Once a gun reached the ramming stage of the loading process, the round could not be changed. If the gun targeted some new troops within canister range, it had to fire whatever round was in the gun and then reload with canister. Currently TC2M, and I’m not absolutely certain, seems to be able to change rounds during the loading process.
Also, as Dale points out, there were other options available to gunners if they ran out of canister. Fuses could be cut very short. Solid shot directed obliquely down your flank had to be at least as deadly as canister to your front. Ordnance is also not able to be shared within the battery. Currently, if a guns runs out of canister in a close in fight, it retreats.
Artillery was never left unguarded. If it was stationary, (especially in the woods), it would have deployed pickets. The unit had many men armed with cap and ball pistols. TC2M many times leaves artillery totally unguarded.
Guns, limbers and caissons were abandoned on the field if the unit had to make a hasty retreat or lost more horses than could pull the objects to the new position. TC2M does not account for this.
Guns barrels weighed about 800 lbs and the gun itself about 1700 lbs. Troops would not have been able to move a gun any significant distance on flat ground. It would not have been able to be moved at all up a steep incline or in the woods. TC2M guns can be moved by troops anywhere on the map even if the crew is exhausted.
Finally, I bet you guys are happy to hear that, this concerning the capture and use of enemy guns. If a battery is attacked from behind, it would not have been able to wheel the guns 180 degrees and fire. Remember that your horses, limbers, caissons and reserves are back there. TC2M, as currently configured, allows this.
I have not been able to find any descriptions of infantry using a skirmish formation to capture or fire on guns. It would seem to make sense that the spreading of troops would decrease their losses in such a circumstance but I cannot find it documented. It is more often described as a probing/delaying formation. I have found references to troops lying down just before the guns fire, then rising up quickly and advancing until the next "Fire!" and then lying down again.
I have not been able to find in the literature any account of where an artillery piece was captured and used against the enemy for any significant length of time. Plenty of pieces were captured, especially by the ANV, but few were used in combat immediately. Remember that certain tools were needed to fire the gun; sponge/rammer, vent pick, vent brush, lanyard, fuse punch and saw, gun site, and friction primers. Should the artillerymen have retreated with these implements then the gun would not have been operable. These were not point and shoot weapons. Calculations had to be made and tables needed to be read. Given the literacy rates, not all soldiers would have been able to load and fire a captured gun. Dale points out that some units were taught how to fire a gun or cross trained on artillery from both armies but I would suggest that they would still be at a green status as they would be firing the guns for the first time provided that they had the equipment to do so.
If an enemy gun was captured then it could be attached to an artillery unit. Once attached, it would be operated by the reserve artillerymen of that battery and therefore have a much higher operational grade. It would also have been able to be limbered and moved by that unit's extra horses. TC2M does not allow this.
Well gentlemen that is it for post 2. Post 3 to follow.
Regards,
Greg