Another Artillery discussion

[NY Cavalry]

I would like to see effective counter battery fire modeled.

This is no way a criticism; it is a request that I would like to see put in the game. It probably would take too much coding, but if another version of this game is made I think modeling counter battery fire would be worth it.

Six hundred yards was considered extremely close in civil war battles. My example would be Gettysburg day two Longstreet's assault. A study of the rebel guns under Alexander who pushed his guns to 600 yards is quite telling. The effects on the batteries, both Union and Rebel were considerable.

I would like to see in this game, or in a next version, guns driven off or killed quite easily from counter battery fire inside 600 yards. This would be more historically accurate and would allow proper modeling of artillery effects overall.

A second request would be that dense formations of troop and or artillery be coded in such a way that there are more hits and casualties. This would be a tricky code, but again more historical to us who enjoy a historical representation.

I would like to state again that this is a great game and that the two issues that I have raised are in no way game breakers. I have played some MP battles recently, from an absence of a few months, and these games play very well.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

I agree that counter battery fire, especially at close range should be beefed up. Although the accuracy can be modded for SP and MP games. Some really deadly artillery can be created this way. For fire against infantry, I've seen a number of instances where an enfilade solid shot can cause 30+ casualties with stock settings. I had the misfortune of having one of my regiments in line, lying down and two enemy rounds caused 69 casualties. The issue of shrapnel rounds being too inaccurate can me modded for single player to suit everyone's taste but unfortunately not for MP games.

[NY Cavalry]

I believe, as it is now, accuracy with respect to infantry and artillery is the same. Counter battery should have its own model.

[Garnier]

There are aspects of counter battery which can be modded in munitions.csv. We've asked for this file to be made mod-able in MP. The stuff in that file should be enough to make counter battery effective.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

The issue with counter battery fire is probably due to the target size being too small. If so, then adjusting the accuracy of the artillery helps.

[Willard]

The issue with counter battery fire is probably due to the target size being too small. If so, then adjusting the accuracy of the artillery helps.

CB fire is modeled poorly. CB fire didn't knock out guns, caissons or kill horses and men as much as you think it did. Was it effective in knocking out guns or destroying caissons, killing horse teams and gun crews? Yes it could be, but not necessarily enough to knock them out completely in an absolute sense or as fast as you would think.

In game there should be instances where a gun is knocked out or a caisson destroyed. However the best way to model CB fire would be to increase the morale and fatigue malus suffered by guns under CB fire. Batteries were suppressed under the weight of heavy fire vice being outright destroyed. That makes the morale/fatigue malus model more appropriate in silencing the guns. Essentially a battery should be driven off once both its fatigue and morale levels reach a certain point - similar to a regiment breaking.

In order to establish effective CB fire, multiple batteries had to concentrate their fire on one battery -in essence approaching 4-1, 5-1 or even 6-1 odds of CB fire (remember Union batteries generally had 6 guns versus the Rebs 4 guns) - to be effective. That also required centralized control of batteries in corps command structure versus a decentralized division or brigade command structure.

That is one of the ways in a GCM MP campaign game that Union artillery advantages could be achieved, but that is a discussion for another thread.

-Willard

[NY Cavalry]

I was under the impression that any accuracy increase for a battery was across the board being artillery or infantry. I think that is the case still, but Garnier is saying that he can mod counter battery fire with a mod that will not undually affect fire to infantry? He only needs another part of the game opened to modding?

I have always like Willards suggestion about using moral and fatigue to generate the pressures on a battery.

Marching through Georgia, I was thinking of a system where effects from artillery could be adjusted separately against infantry and other artillery. I was thinking this might be the fix needed(with coding). As you stated in a post, playing around with one goal or purpose(counter battery fire) might make some very destructive artillery against infantry. Either way, I think I am making my point. I am not computer savvy and I would hope we could get better counter battery fire in the game as it is now. If not I would hope that in the future maybe Norb could get it worked in.

With effective counter battery fire then guns could be more historically modeled which would open up a whole entire dimension to this game. Tactics would have to be developed by the players to properly use artillery and to effectively defeat artillery.

At times, I will place guns on my front line. Usually emergency situations. The front line should be the most dangerous place for artillery.

Gen Lee tried to suppress Union artillery on day 3 of Gettysburg and it didn't work very well. Alexander did much better on day 2 because he brought his guns up close, but at a cost.

I know this can be a touchy issue with lots of inputs and complaints.

[Rich Mac]

I think it has been proven that Willard's guns need a 20-1 ratio to achieve any effectiveness.

BTW...I may be back very soon

[NY Cavalry]

Always good to hear from Rich Mac.

[Hancock the Superb]

I agree with Willard in that counter-battery fire was more of an effort to dislodge enemy guns rather than an actual attempt to blow them up. However, I think that this is due to a different reason than just a moral hit. I believe that one of the main reasons why a battery was driven off is because it is taking too many casualties. Unlike a regiment, it is easy to tell when a gun crew becomes depleted, and when you call in replacements, you firing becomes gradually less effective. Undoubtedly, heavy artillery fire would make the guns ineffective to load and fire, causing the battery commander to retreat, but I would guess that casualties also play a large role in whether or not a battery stays in a position.

So I would suggest that guns take not only a larger moral hit but also take more casualties, because they really don't take any at present.