MP version?

[Von_Clausewitz]

I have downloaded and played the Napoleonic mod, Road to wagram and it is awesome. Kudos to everyone involved.
My biggest disappointment is the lack of MP.

I come from a decent community of napoleonic gamers and would love nothing more than to be able to play this MP, why is that not possible?

while SP is fun, the AI does not know that a square formation is possible and as such does not use it, which makes it easy to exploit that by throwing cavalry at infantry units in line routing them.

Any possibility of playing this MP? i am sure sales of scourge of war would increase if that was possible.

VC

[Saddletank]

The Napoleonic Mod changes some files that the MP code effective sees as 'cheats' and so MP is impossible with the game set-up the way it currently is. It would need a pretty significant rewrite of some core parts of the game to enable Napoleonic Mod MP.

The devs are aware of this of course and also I think they're aware that they are sitting on a goldmine (or at least a small silver mine) with the potential of making the Nap Mod official and releasing it as an add-on pack with MP code enabled. It would need a few official maps too, for that.

We can only be patient and hopeful,

[Von_Clausewitz]

That is somewhat odd.
SoW was supposed to be very mod friendly however it does not support Mods in MP? Any overhaul mod would be expected to change stats and other similar attributes, so i am surprised this was not taken into account in the MP code.
The total war series for example will check to make sure that everyone involved in a game will have the same files, otherwise they cannot join, it will tell them they have a different version of the game.
So what is needed really is a version checker.

Obviously all we can do is be patient, unfortunately patience is not my strong point :sick:

VC

[Baldwin]

Yes they could make it an install file and it would work and their code would be hidden. The game already won't work if your not using the same base files as the other players. I agree too that NSD is first off extremely lucky Gunship made all the graphics for free and they could sell it as an entirely separate game and I'm sure they would get lots of sales. What is the worst that would come from letting players do graphical overhauls to the sprites? It would be a mod so people know that it goes through many versions before being top of the line and wouldn't blame NSD if the mod wasn't perfect from the get go. Heck MANY things went wrong with MP in the beginning and I didn't hear anyone in the community blaming NSD, we just kept testing and sending in bug reports.

I am curious Clausewitz as to how many of your friends would buy the game if Napoleon MP was to be released? I know there is a large community of Nap gamers out there, just don't know how many are following this game.

[Jack ONeill]

All,

Thanks for the rest of y'all answering VC. I was cut off in the middle of posting my reply earlier. The final nail in the MP coffin, (for now), is the write-protection aspect of the original game. Because, as Tank said, so many files have been changed to create the mod, therby conflicting with the base game, the licensing aspect would come into play in order to create a secondary Napolonic game. Norb/Team would have to re-license the game as a seperate entity. I don't know if they are prepared to do that.

My ha'penny's worth.

Jack B)

[Baldwin]

If it's a non purchased MP mod you don't have to re-license it right?. Look at Mount & Blade, etc. They didn't have to re license for all their free mods.

[Von_Clausewitz]

I am one of the Lordz in the Lordz modding community that worked on NTW3, napoleonic total war3. i was the team mod leader for that project.
I think gunship used NTW2 sprites, made by the previous lordz team, i might be wrong.
I do not buy any licensing arguments, all games allow overhaul mods, we made NTW1 and NTW2 out of medieval total war and rome total war without CA having to relicense anything to make Napoleon total war.

Let's not forget that this is only a MP mod, like i stated earlier SP AI does not know or take into account squares to use them.
If norb plans to make a genuine napoleonic game then he would have to incorporate squares into the AI algorithm, maybe make ordre mixte, ordre profond and ordre mince formations. Also they would need to allow formations in echelons with one side refused, formation in checkerboard for division and corps formations etc.....

There are a lot of things that can be done to sell a napoleonic game despite the napoleonic mod being there already. The game would allow more features and enhancements in addition to more maps etc...
I am hoping the plan is not to sell Gettysburg with napoleonic costumes...

The lordz community has at least hundreds of fanatic members, if you add to that the casual gamers that would be interested in playing something like that i am sure the number would be in the thousands.

A couple of thousand people downloaded our mod NTW3 in the first couple of months from its release, i did not keep track after that. Scourge of War is a much better engine, not to be compared with TW battle engine, hence my excitement for the napoleonic mod and my deep disappointment in the lack of MP support for it.

This game is of course the best civil war game out there, but my passion is for the nap era.

VC

[Saddletank]

There are lots of mods that work with MP; one of the biggest online gaming groups that plays SOW uses the GCM mod which changes gameplay considerably.

The issue with the Nap mod is that it alters some files that MUST remain unaltered for MP to work. Once that was done, that was that.

If norb plans to make a genuine napoleonic game then he would have to incorporate squares into the AI algorithm, maybe make ordre mixte, ordre profond and ordre mince formations. Also they would need to allow formations in echelons with one side refused, formation in checkerboard for division and corps formations etc...

You're being a little tough on NSD with this list of demands considering that CA made no effort whatever to make a Napoleonic game beyond their generic TW engine with Napoleonic uniforms! They included a (totally ficticious, unrealistic and mostly non-functional) square formation with N:TW but that was all. The whole game was laughable.

The Lordz collectively have a great deal of skill and talent but I was very surprised they spent so much time and effort modding various TW games when the ultimate failure of the work was never in doubt due to the completely unsuitable base game.

Even if NSD did just release "Gettysburg with Shakos" it would still be ten times better than anything CA have made, mainly for the strong AI, the 25 sq mile maps and the 60,000 man battles its practical to have.

Histwar comes closest to representing the grand and sweeping nature of Napoleonic tactics but its interface and style is an acquired taste. You either love it or loathe it. I could never get on with it.

The current SOW SP mod that is almost entirely the work of one single man has made some changes to the base game to make it more Napoleonic in feel but even in its current state I think its the best Napoleonic wargame available for the PC, even including its obvious ACW antecedents.

As to whether NSD have any plans to do anything at all with Gunships work, I have no idea.

[Von_Clausewitz]

You're being a little tough on NSD with this list of demands considering that CA made no effort whatever to make a Napoleonic game beyond their generic TW engine with Napoleonic uniforms! They included a (totally ficticious, unrealistic and mostly non-functional) square formation with N:TW but that was all. The whole game was laughable.

I do not think that I am being too demanding of NSD. We all know what CA's policies are; make hollywood style eye candy, try to reach the maximum amount of buyers, historical accuracy optional. Yes, NTW was laughable, I expected that, I expect better from NSD, their aim is to make a historical engine and a napoleonic engine without these options is not worthy of the name.
Histwar, which I own, and who's developer I know well, offers all these options, it's graphics have had a major overhaul, follow the forum to see, it's interface will get an overhaul too.

The Lordz collectively have a great deal of skill and talent but I was very surprised they spent so much time and effort modding various TW games when the ultimate failure of the work was never in doubt due to the completely unsuitable base game.

Even if NSD did just release "Gettysburg with Shakos" it would still be ten times better than anything CA have made, mainly for the strong AI, the 25 sq mile maps and the 60,000 man battles its practical to have.

Up until histwar and scourge of war were released, the total war engine was the only decent engine to try and make a napoleonic mod to play MP. Histwar is always evolving as a nap game, it had limited audience due to initial buggs. Just before starting the NTW3 project, norb had told me on this forum that map modding was not going to be available and since I did not fancy playing hundreds of battles on a few maps wedecided to use the NTW engine.
I agree, it pales in comparison to what is achievable with this engine, however we only play MP, and despite the beauty of the nap mod, the AI is always too dumb, not much of a challenge and not stimulating enough for us.
Playing against human intelligence is the nirvana, especially if we could play an epic napoleonic battle on this

Please do not mistake my comments as criticisim of the NSD engine, the game is great, I just think it is a shame not to fix this MP issue pronto.
As I stated earlier NSD has no need to use gunship's work, what they need to is allow his mod in MP and do their own napoleonic game when ready including more enhancements like the ones I mentioned.

VC

[Jack ONeill]

VC,

With all due respect, (this is NOT sarcasm here), I think you have missed part of the point. As Tank has mentioned just now, ( and I have previously explained elsewhere), the Nap Mod contains Base game running files that are altered from the original game files. At this point in time, the Nap Mod cannot run in MP mode due to this basic difference - to wit, the files would clash. It is not, unfortunately, merely a matter of everyone having the same Mod running at the same time. Seriously Brother, we have tried this, ad infinitum, to no avail. As I understand it, the entire coding sequence would have to be re-written to accomdate the new information. The MOST logical conclusion would be to put in the Mod information as a seperate game in and of itself. This is where the licensing aspect comes into play. The Norb/Team owns the rights to this game. They would have to decide to allow these changes to occur and then allow it out there as an enitrely new game. Right now, they are entirely focused on SOWGB and the new and exciting aspects forthcoming. That is as it should be. If, at some later time, they chose to delve into the world of Napoleonic warfare, so be it. The bonus news there is they have all the wonderful work that Brother Gunship has done to start off with, if they so chose.
No-one wants this Mod to be playable in MP more than me. Right now, I believe we must be resigned to the situation of just playing it in SP.

Jack B)