Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Here we solicit numbers from members concerning anything regarding historical numbers that affect a Civil War simulation: hit rates, rates of fire, casualty rates, movement rates, you name it. The idea is that we're really trying to get the numbers for the game right.

Olszowy
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by Olszowy »

Honestly, to someone who has lead troops for many years this whole discussion is a kinda silly. Humans are not mathematical solutions and attempting to apply a detailed mathematical standard to their behavior in the most varied conditions ever faced is sheer folly.
Try this, take 1000 men, run them through two or three years of fighting and I can assure you that the surviving men will hit and kill someone at well beyond what you think they can, more often, and they will do it very methodically, coldy, efficiently, and blow your calculations away. Marching Through Georgia mentioned how people flinch and pull up and do all sorts of things when firing. Yep, very true for beginners. Not so for that steely killer who has done it a thousand times.
BTW, calculate that the target and firer are constantly changing lateral position. Additionally, the target is likely changing height constantly or is your world flat and people slide along or just stand still? Add on top of that in high humidity and still air visibility goes to ZERO immediately after firing and stays that way. Might skew some numbers.
If you want a ballistically correct game, great, not sure what that brings, but okay, go for it. I'd rather time be spent on ensuring the battlefield framework, comprehensive scenario editor, battlescript for co-op games, better orders, placeable breastworks, and such be worked on.
The funny part is Hancock, you were the guy that told me that detailed studies were not necessary and got all over me for asking questions.
Davinci
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by Davinci »

@Olszowy - Well now, where have you been hiding, it's good to see you back in-action!

davinci
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RebBugler
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by RebBugler »

Olszowy
If you want a ballistically correct game, great, not sure what that brings, but okay, go for it. I'd rather time be spent on ensuring the battlefield framework, comprehensive scenario editor, battlescript for co-op games, better orders, placeable breastworks, and such be worked on.
Good stuff, thanks for the heads up. Some is already submitted, the rest is a healthy dose of "Yeah, gotta have it."
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Saddletank
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by Saddletank »

If these numbers are correct why were they always told to low? Doesn't the bullet fall enough already.
They were told to aim low because a standard .58 Calibre Minie Ball moves in an arc when fired. Modern weapons do the same thing. Thus they were told to aim low because at the short distances they were fighting from, the bullet would still be moving in an upward arc.
They were actually told to aim low because many men unused to handling firearms had an over-exaggerated concept of bullet drop and thus aimed far too high. "Aim low" meant "Aim lower than you think you need to" and not "Aim at their knees".

Check out some civil war photos taken of battlefields soon after the combat was over and notice how many trees are stripped of their leaves.
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MCM
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by MCM »

Perhaps I missed the post, and I concede to not possessing a background in mathematics, BUT. Has anyone considered that the ability of an individual to hit a specific target at range may be of lesser importance than the ability to simply put a round downrange in the vicinity of the enemy unit? An infantry unit with ~100 men is likely engaging a unit of similar size. Missing one individual (target) doesn't exclude the possibility or likelihood of hitting someone nearby. Given that, is it reasonable to treat the entire unit as an homogenous whole for the sake of approximating accuracy and casualties? I noticed on Wikipedia that some of the rifles of the day were capable of throwing out rounds to nearly 1500' with no degree of accuracy of course. Today we train to hit targets at that range, and can do so quite reliably with only iron sights. (A man sized target appears to be about the size of a pencil lead at that range.) Does the engine actually track the trajectory of EVERY projectile in the game? Just a thought.
Garnier
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Re: Analysis of Variance of Firing Angles and Hit Percentages on the Battlefield

Post by Garnier »

Does the engine actually track the trajectory of EVERY projectile in the game? Just a thought.
No.

Nor does the game try to calculate accuracy as if a soldier is shooting at a single target.

But nor does the game make you more likely to hit when you shoot at targets with more men in the same area (as far as we know).

(This thread isn't really relevant to the game -- it was just a discussion.)
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