Scourge of War Boards

Quoted from the Win 8 discussion thread:

http://mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0004.html

Actually I am very concerned regarding the closing up of a once open PC system (see above link for more detail). I think the introduction of Windows 8 is a very ominous sign for those who want an open PC system and the innovation that it brings. This very well could lead to the elimination of small independent developers and for games like SoW in the future.

Perhaps the time for Linux as a wide spread OS may truly be coming. The only way I could see that working would be for developers to come together and finance some type of common open Linux OS, but that seems unlikely. Perhaps Google could create and establish an open OS computer system, like they have for smartphones and tablets?

Regards,

Wow, what an eye opener that article is. I now know why MS toppled Mac as the mainstream OS, their integration of the GUI (Xerox's graphical inter phase developed further by Apple) over DOS, thus keeping the business side interests intact with DOS, and attracting the personal computer generation with the GUI. And up until Win 7, this was maintained, although DOS died years ago, as the GUI eventually assumed both roles. Now, with Win 8, if history repeats itself, they're on the road to kill the GUI, in favor of the new ARM architecture, which supports the tablet and device market. So, if I'm reading this right, their goal is on track to eliminate the PC as we know it now in favor of the device market. They have their XBox, who needs PCs for gaming? This is why Win8 is promoed right now as so cheap...it's a takeover move folks.

OK, I may be wrong, but that's what I'm reading into this...call me an alarmist if you will. Regardless, I'm convinced that Win 8 could turn out very ugly for publishers and consumers alike, and I'm anti MS now more than ever. Still, I need to pick up Win 7, cause I need more RAM. And Win 7 runs SOW just fine I hear.

If there is one group that could push a 3rd OS into relevancy it would be Android. If Windows becomes to closed a market may well develop for Google to offer a more robust Android OS for standard CPU use.

If there is one positive it's that while Windows is closing down, Android is flourishing as an open source and open OS. It might not have the sales figures for applications that Apple does but its a completely open OS with 51% market share in it's field, that is something encouraging.

Flanyboy,

The Android platform would have to improve quite a bit in order to become a full fledged desktop operating system, but I would agree that Google would be the most likely to undertake such an endeavor, especially if MS maintains this position of a closed platform. The good side of it is as you mentioned Android's open platform is overtaking Apple's closed platform, I think if you look at the most recent sales, they are showing percentages in the 80% range.

I know that Newell has called 8 a catastrophe for the PC, and they are actively involved with Linux development. Also, Persson is refusing to have Minecraft certified for 8.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Regards,

RebBugler,

I don't think you are being an alarmist at all, you basically summarized what is likely to happen. On the other hand historically it seems like the open platform wins out over closed platforms in the long run, let's hope history repeats itself. ARM architecture and how that is driving software is the next concern.

Regards,

RebBugler,

I don't think you are being an alarmist at all, you basically summarized what is likely to happen. On the other hand historically it seems like the open platform wins out over closed platforms in the long run, let's hope history repeats itself. ARM architecture and how that is driving software is the next concern.

Regards,

The encouraging thing is supposedly Intel is working on an answer to the ARM architecture that has both the benefits that ARM has in terms of power usage (which is ARM's biggest advantage) and also a more conventional desktop architecture so it doesn't sacrifice the performance side of things. I wish I could find the link on it.

My main concern here is that if Windows 8 is successful, then Microsoft will scuttle Windows 7. Windows 7 is obviously the last hope for PC gaming as we move to the 64 bit platform. The 32 bit platforms, XP and all it's predecessors, will die on their own as the technology progresses.

I have much more to say about these concerns, but I'll sit back momentarily, and see where this thread leads as folks assimilate and interpret on their own the above information, especially the opening link: mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0004.html

The way I see it, windows 8 is just windows 7 with the addition of support for everything that becomes available for windows 8 devices like phones and tablets. It doesn't appear to prevent anyone from doing anything they can do on windows 7.

I don't need windows 8 so I haven't switched, but I don't see any solid evidence that they intend to ban open software distribution methods ten years from now. This all seems like fear mongering to me.

The way I see it, windows 8 is just windows 7 with the addition of support for everything that becomes available for windows 8 devices like phones and tablets. It doesn't appear to prevent anyone from doing anything they can do on windows 7.

I don't need windows 8 so I haven't switched, but I don't see any solid evidence that they intend to ban open software distribution methods ten years from now. This all seems like fear mongering to me.

Well, this is kind of logic that Microsoft is counting on, and for now, Win 08 is seemingly harmless. However, once the majority of Windows users are under the Win 08 umbrella, how far will the next series of Windows OS's go?

Win 7 is the most robust OS that MS has produced to date. It has dumped the clunky DOS environment and is pure GUI...perfect for the modern 64 bit PC environment. With Win 8, the GUI must now share the ARM environment, it may not be noticeable now, but how long until MS cripples the GUI environment with future OS's? And when Microsoft makes this move, Win 7 will be on it's chopping block...it will have to be for MS to implement ARM totality, and gain absolute power over what is now an open PC marketplace relying on the GUI platform.

So windows 8 is fine as it is, but we shouldn't buy it because windows 9 will be bad.

Fair enough, I can't argue about the next windows since there's no info on it yet.

I’m sort of looking at this from a very narrow window here, meaning that I only know as much about this as posted above.

So, why should anyone care about what happens in-say-five-ten-years from now, nobody is going to make you purchase windows8 if you don’t want it.

Nobody is going to come and delete any other operating-system-that you presently have on your computer.

This is nothing more than the simple fact that as time goes on…..things will change!

The older generation will continue with the PC Platform, while the newer generation will seek other means of gaming. (i.e.…smaller \ portable)

The truth be told, our gaming on this type of game doesn’t depend on Microsoft, it only depends on Norb , when he quits writing \ updating the code, the game will eventually die.

But, even if that should happen a lot of us will continue to play the game we have for years, and years after that fact!

Believe you and me, there are far bigger problems in the world than PC-Gaming or any other Operating-System!

davinci

The way I see it, windows 8 is just windows 7 with the addition of support for everything that becomes available for windows 8 devices like phones and tablets. It doesn't appear to prevent anyone from doing anything they can do on windows 7.

I don't need windows 8 so I haven't switched, but I don't see any solid evidence that they intend to ban open software distribution methods ten years from now. This all seems like fear mongering to me.

Windows implementation of the Windows Store into the OS and thus the turning of an open platform into a closed platform which makes it increasingly difficult for 3rd party publishers to innovate and succeeded as Windows limits the places you can get software is the biggest threat to the PC. ARM is a nuisance, closed purchases for the OS is the real killer of the system we have today.

Flanboy Wrote:

Windows implementation of the Windows Store into the OS and thus the turning of an open platform into a closed platform which makes it increasingly difficult for 3rd party publishers to innovate and succeeded as Windows limits the places you can get software is the biggest threat to the PC. ARM is a nuisance, closed purchases for the OS is the real killer of the system we have today.

Just because Microsoft has added a Store to their Operating system is not the end of the open system.

Steam will still be around (talk about a closed system), Matrix, and other publishing companies will still be around, you will still be able to walk down too your favorite software store in the shopping mall, and buy your game, small indie developers will still go on creating their masterpieces, and promote them on their own webpages or through a publisher, you will still be able too download your games via the internet as always, and install them as you do now. Nothing is going to change in the way you do things. Developers will have another place to sell their software, and that is all. The MAC has their own APP store, Linux has their own APP store. That didn't bring down the world as we know it, or create a Closed system. Check out the MAC app store pic.
As far as the ARM architecture is concerned that is a few years off for it to come to the PC even if it does (nothing is written in stone) we won't have to worry since the ARM Architecture will be more mature, and will work far better than they do now. Things change quickly as far as the latest, and greatest Tablet, or the new handheld. The PC is pretty consistent, yes a bit old but in my personal opinion is still the greatest gaming platform out there for FPS games, Strategy Games, and many others, and lets not forget what really keeps a game alive, and that is the beauty of modifications. Can't do that with the PS3, Tablet, XBOX, or any Handheld. The PC is still here, and will be here for many years to come so stop squirming about in your seats in fear of the PC dieing.

As far as asking people not to buy Windows 8 because of what may happen in years to come, I guess I should have listened to the naysayers back when Windows 95 hit the market, I could have saved us all from this doom, and gloom.

Even though the technology speeds along at a frantic pace, we seem as consumers to be much more slower in accepting, and buying the new gadgets. Hell I still have a VCR, and I can still go down, and buy one for 20 bucks at my local Canadian Tire store with a box of 5 VHS tapes.

Personally you folks are way out of line with this one. You can't say that Microsoft can't do it, but Apple can, or Linux can, but not Microsoft.

I bet none of you who are passing around this doom, and gloom are even running Windows 8, you read what others have written, and pass it around as fact without first trying Windows 8 for yourselves.

You have to remember that the people who are writing these articles are living in the world of What if's, it's pure speculation at best, and not based in fact.

Personally you folks are way out of line with this one. You can't say that Microsoft can't do it, but Apple can, or Linux can, but not Microsoft.

Microsoft presently commands 90% of the PC marketplace with their OS platform...and you don't see the power there?

So, this statement and the accompanying generalizations remind me of a band director I once worked with. When a student started distracting rehearsal by talking, the director would stop rehearsal, stare down the kid and state: "(student's name), if you didn't open your mouth so much, people wouldn't know how s....d you are."

You've got SEVERAL threads touting how WONDERFUL Win 8 is, we've only encroached on one, apologies. Still, it was titled as a Discussion of Win 8. So, we've since left it in favor of this one. Your opinions are welcome here, but don't expect us to just sit back and listen to your bunk without responding negatively.

As I've stated, Win 8 is harmless at this point in time, and it may stay harmless, but that's not what many folks are seeing, the rationale behind this thread.

Personally you folks are way out of line with this one. You can't say that Microsoft can't do it, but Apple can, or Linux can, but not Microsoft.

Microsoft presently commands 90% of the PC marketplace with their OS platform...and you don't see the power there?

So, this statement and the accompanying generalizations remind me of a band director I once worked with. When a student starting distracting rehearsal by talking, the director would stop rehearsal, stare down the kid and state: (student's name), if you didn't open your mouth so much, people wouldn't know how s....d you were.

You've got SEVERAL threads touting how WONDERFUL Win 8 is, we've only encroached on one, apologies. Still, it was titled as a Discussion of Win 8. So, we've since left it in favor of this one. Your opinions are welcome here, but don't expect us to just sit back and listen to your bunk without responding negatively.

As I've stated, Win 8 is harmless at this point in time, and it may stay harmless, but that's not what many folks are seeing, the rationale behind this thread.

Hey Rebbugler.

No problem about the encroaching in the Windows 8 discussion. I didn't really take offense, it just took away from the general discussion, but of course the thread title could have been changed to what I have now, so my fault on that.

About the 90 percent market share between the Microsoft, MAC, and Linux you are right it is higher, but my full point is that even though the MAC has an online store for it's apps, and Linux has a apps store didn't cause the MAC to become a closed platform, neither did it cause the Linux OS to become a closed system. Microsoft is doing what has been going on with the MAC OS, and the Linux OS for quite a long while, and you will not see Microsoft to be the nasty as they are being accused of becoming where their online store is concerned.

You can't say yes to one, and no to another simply because of Market share, and call it a free market, and no I don't see the 90 percent being anything other than 90 percent. I see nothing ominous about it being that high. If Apple is having a problem with that, then step up too the plate Apple, and take Microsoft on. It's Apples decision to either let their MAC fall off the cliff, or start putting their systems into the hands of everyone which means that Apple will have to start lowering their prices, and pushing it as hard as Microsoft pushes itself. Apple even today has the same mind set as it did back when Microsoft came along, which is "People will see that the Apple/MAC is better than Microsoft, and they will buy a MAC", is simply not true. It's two things. PRICE is one, and amount of software available.

Apple has lost on both fronts where that is concerned. I can build two high end PC's for the price of one good MAC, and only having 1000 software choices for the MAC, there is 20,000 for the PC.

If anyone is to blame for Apples market share, it is Apple, not Microsoft.

Note: Concerning me pushing several topics about Windows 8, if you don't like my posts, just delete my threads, that is the job of the forum moderator, delete them, then give me my warnings. If I get three, ban me it's that simple.