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Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:24 pm
by Anthropoid
Hello!

I am a big fan of Take Command Second Manassas. I came on the scene very late in that games development cycle, and I have a bad habit of 'getting distracted' by other games. But I'm finally 'back' to the Norb series and have been playing a bit of SoW in SP and MP mode (some buddies from the "Maddog Drivethrough" forums).

I always felt that a good courier system was what would push TC2M "over the top" into extraordinary 19th century operational warfare simulator, and yep! It is a remarkable innovation in the game engine! Getting to understand all its subtleties will take some time (and I see there is a veritable library on the courier system on here). However, I do have a couple of overarching questions at the outset. I should probably frame my experience with the series a bit.

Have been playing wargames for pretty much decades. First ones were paper-chit hex map games in High School in the '80s. Inactive in grad school in the 1990s, but have been getting back into the computer versions since then. Lots of Matrix, Paradox, Slitherine, Nitro titles on my HD.

First played TC2M maybe two years ago? Maybe it was only one. Pretty quickly got hooked and installed a lot of scenarios. Things were pretty darn quiet over at the Mad Minute forums at that point; I guess the 'heyday' of the game was past and most fans/modders/testers must've been focused on working on SoW at that point. Anyway, a few of the old regulars over there helped me get setup with lots of scenarios (which I guess I'll have to reinstall at some point as that was a HD ago and I didn't properly back it up). My favorite scenarios were the "Suppressing Pope" and "First Bull Run" (always as Yanks) the latter being a user made scenario. Using Normal difficulty and liberal use of Pause I managed to achieve some dramatic outcomes with those battles (e.g., I think I once routed Pope's entire corps and drove them off the map for a final score in the 20K ballpark :laugh: ), which was a fun way to learn the game.

With SoW I'm looking forward to fully mastering the courier system and hopefully get involved in an MP group who play hardcore cooper or PVP in HITS. So far I'm finding the courier system to be a bit unpredictable, but I reckon it is just me now knowing how it works. Seems like selecting a subordinates commander and then manually giving commands on the toolbar tends to work most of the time (assuming courier doesn't get intercepted), but using the Courier command window sometimes they seem to just ignore your orders.

Question
(1) I heard there was a "timestamp" bug that might be accounting for that?

I tend to prefer the scenarios like the Suppressing Pope or even better ones like "GB3D - July 1 to 3 - Gettysburg Three Days (C Army). Love that scenario! Playing in normal mode I've managed to drive the Yanks across the town by about late afternoon on Day 2 and with casualty ratios of about 5 killed to 1 lost. Using the sky cam and micromanaging each Brigade and gun and driving the poor hapless AI back is of course fun, but the prospect of mastering the courier system and seeing how good I can do is what I'm really interested in.

My overall question then is:

(2) Just how big of victories can a competent player achieve playing SP in HITS in a big battle where you have plenty of leeway to try different and perhaps unorthodox or even slightly gamey things?

Obviously by micromanaging in Normal difficulty it is possible to outwit the opponent AI and achieve hugely ahistorical and disproportionate outcomes. But is it possible to achieve a high degree of 'finesse' and at least somewhat "Napoleonic" victories using the courier system? I'm finding that to be rather clumsy for me right now.

Lots of other minor questions, but that should get me going!

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:05 pm
by Marching Thru Georgia
Hello and welcome to the forum.

Yes there is a timestamp bug in the game when using the courier system. It sounds like that is the problem you are having. On your first order, click on the Date & Time tab at the top of the courier screen. Then write and send off your message as usual. You only have to do that once at the beginning of a battle.

The size of your victories will be dependent on how good a general you are and how gamey you want to be. Certainly, if you are flying around the battlefield, using instant communications, removing the foliage, using 20th century armor tactics and TCing everyone in sight, the AI will offer you little challenge. However, if you use couriers and fight from the saddle, (HITS), (playing as the AI does), you'll be lucky to win initially 10-20% of your battles. When you get good at it, you should be able to win more than half.

There is a group, KriegSpiel, that plays this way. You can find them at:KriegSpiel Forum
They have multi-player games that are fought in this fashion, both PVP and co-op. They fight both ACW and Napoleonic battles.

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:18 pm
by Anthropoid
Thanks much MTG!

So what is the status of the TC2M missions? Have they been ported to the SoW engine?

I've installed the Nappy mod and looking forward to giving that a whirl.

I'll bop over to KriegSpiel and set up and account too.

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:59 pm
by Marching Thru Georgia
As far as I know, the scenarios can't be transferred. The format of the two games is different. Check out the KS Napoleon mod over there too. It compliments the Road to Wagram mod, making AI behavior more Napoleonic.

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:09 pm
by Anthropoid
Cool.

So do you know if the GB3D - July 1-3 - Gettysburg Three Days scenarios have MP compatible versions?

I was wanting to do that one with a couple buddies and we can't seem to find the MP version.

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:13 pm
by Michael Slaunwhite
Thanks much MTG!

So what is the status of the TC2M missions? Have they been ported to the SoW engine?

I've installed the Nappy mod and looking forward to giving that a whirl.

I'll bop over to KriegSpiel and set up and account too.
The only thing that I'm aware of are the TC2M OOB's which have been converted by two people...

#1: Tc2m Cmp30 Converted OOBS by Garnier: http://www.justallinone.com/index.php/c ... Itemid=493
#2: Zeke's first TC2M OOB Conversion Pack: http://www.justallinone.com/index.php/c ... Itemid=493

Re: Back to Norb Series from Other Games

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:23 am
by Anthropoid
Thanks much MTG!

So what is the status of the TC2M missions? Have they been ported to the SoW engine?

I've installed the Nappy mod and looking forward to giving that a whirl.

I'll bop over to KriegSpiel and set up and account too.
The only thing that I'm aware of are the TC2M OOB's which have been converted by two people...

#1: Tc2m Cmp30 Converted OOBS by Garnier: http://www.justallinone.com/index.php/c ... Itemid=493
#2: Zeke's first TC2M OOB Conversion Pack: http://www.justallinone.com/index.php/c ... Itemid=493
Ah, well that is most of the work isn't it!? Assuming no one has done it yet, I'd guess it wouldn't be too big of a challenge to take those OOBs, and plug them into the new SoW maps for the Chancellorsville area, plug in objectives, dates and times, and voila!? TC2M battles pseudo-ported to SoW.

Am I off base in thinking this should be possible?