Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Let's talk about Gettysburg! Put your questions and comments here.
Gfran64
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Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Gfran64 »

"The enemy's signal give him a great advantage over me." General Thomas Jackson


Hi all,

Well I've gone off on one of my research tangents again. Whenever I begin feel that a component of this game seems off, however slightly, I try to go and research as much of the public domain as I can to see if I can get a better feel for how things were as opposed to how they are in the game. As I remove one layer of this onion, I always find another layer under it that is just as interesting as the previous one. With that said, I remain most appreciative of the team's efforts and will purchase any product they put out because it is the best product of it's kind. As Norb has stated, the goal is to get MP working correctly, then the game with modifications released in a patch. The following would be suggestions for that patch. At worst, I hope it is interesting to the community.

I never got the feeling that TC2M had the actual function of Corp and Army commands correct. I always felt that there should be a HQ set up somewhere, The Leister house, with the general near that point for the Army and Corp commands. The moving of high command officers all over the map to better route the couriers just is not realistic at all. Couriers were used frequently but more often than not orders were sent by the Signal Corp by flag or telegraph.

Major Albert Meyer invented a system using flags and torches in the 1850's to help the army communicate orders. It was field tested in 1858. Two participants in these field trials were Porter Alexander, (Meyer's aide),and Lafayette McClaws. More on them later. Different flag motions represented different numbers and different number sets represented different letters. A cipher was employed by both sides to encode messages. A 20 word message could be sent and read in about 5 minutes. The receiving party used telescopes and strong field glasses to view the message sometimes being waved some 10 or more miles away. The Signal Corp was adopted by the army in 1860. At the start of the war Major Meyers was placed in command of the Union Signal Corp and Porter Alexander the Confederate SC. The losses for the Union SC were 150%, the average loss for a unit was 20%. No unit suffered so greatly as did the SC.

Typically the Signal post was set up on the highest point in an area for observation and communication. Other posts were set up in the general area to be watched. Thus a chain of line of sight posts became connected and operational. These operations were highly dependent on weather and visability. The telegraph was also used extensively, although not at Gettysburg so I will only mention it briefly. Sherman carried with him at all times a pocket telegraph. Grant, by the end of the war could and did determine the disposition of the entire Union army down to the brigade level using the telegraph. That is over 500,000 men over 800,000 square miles. Militarily speaking, this was never done before. Never before in warfare had that volume of information been accessible to commanders. The telegraph handled logistical and strategic communications at the grand tactical and strategic level. The SC operated at the tactical and grand tactical level. The former being very obvious at Gettysburg. The high losses incurred by these units no doubt confirms the thought that they were a very high value target and all necessary measures should be taken to eliminate them.

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I have found evidence of SC activity at every major battle in the ACW. At first Bull Run, Porter Alexander signaled Evans that he saw Federal forces some 8 miles away and he should, "Look to your left, your position is turned." At Malvern Hill McCellan, aboard the steamship Galena, signaled his orders to his army and directed naval gunfire. At the Elk mountain lookout at Antietam, Burnside was warned of Early's approach, "Look to your left, the enemy are moving a strong force in that direction." Lee's invasion force at Antietam was spotted by a signal post on Sugar Loaf. The Army of the Cumberland had become strong supporters of the SC and used them constantly. The SC at Vining's Station via Kenesaw Mountain saved Sherman/Corse as it signaled over the heads of the enemy to Allatoona. The same happened to Hood at Atlanta. Meade would not leave his HQ at Gettysburg without his signal team during the ANV artillery barrage preceding Picket's attack. At Petersburg huge observation towers were built by the AOP to transmit orders and for observation. Specific ANV batteries were tasked with taking these towers out.

Concerning specifically Gettysburg, the SC assigned a signal team to each corp command at the battle. Before the battle a signal post was placed on Indian Lookout at Emmitsburg, MD. There was a telegraph station there that could communicate with Washington, DC. Buford on the first day had his signal man in the cupola of the Lutheran Seminary who spotted Heth's advance columns. Later in the day he warned Howard, "Over a division of the rebels is making a bank movement on our right: the line extends over a mile, and is advancing, skirmishing." The signal man then moved to the top of the Gettysburg Courthouse and finally to Cemetery Hill late in the day. In the evening, 11pm, of the first day communications were opened between Indian Lookout and Little Round Top, LRT. The rest of the AOP Corp signal stations were also established; a spur on Culp's Hill, (Steven's Knoll), Power's Hill for Slocum, the Leister House for Meade's HQ and Cemetery Hill. Thus the entire AOP had internal communication by the morning of the 2nd day. Therefore a message could be sent from Slocum on Culp's Hill to Meade's HQ, from Meade to LRT and from LRT to Indian Lookout and then to the telegraph office in Emmitsburg, MD and then to Washington, DC all in about 1/2 hour.

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The signal station at LRT initially saw Longstreet's flanking movement, (Wilcox), thus forcing a more than 2 hour counter march advocated by McLaws and Porter as they had seen the signal station. As you remember, both these men worked with Meyer on field testing for the SC before the war. Eventually the messages kept coming in from this signal station of large troop movements prompting Meade to send Warren to LRT. Warren seeing the situation for what it was ordered LRT occupied in force. This signal unit suffered significant loss due to ANV sharpshooters but continued to signal throughout the battle. There is a plaque on the top of LRT dedicated to their service. On the 3rd day Picket's movement out of the woods was immediately signaled to Meade's HQ. Following the battle the signal posts moved to observe Lee's retreat from Waynesboro, PA to Middletown and Crampton's Pass with Maryland Heights, Washington Monument at South Mountain Pass, and finally Boonesborough at Beaver Creek crossing. Thus the entire Gettysburg Campaign has documented 67 different AOP signal stations.

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My wish list is as follows:

Command and control could be rethought as to the use of the SC. Couriers were not used for longer distance communication of orders when the SC was functional. Couriers would be used for communicating orders within a corp or division coming out from a corp HQ where their commanding general would be. That general would receive the signaled messages from the HQ of the army, by courier from his HQ if he wandered to far away from his HQ. Commanding generals could scout well forward of their position but would then receive messages by a courier from their corp HQ. That fixes the suicidal courier problem.

SC stations would need to be in direct LOS of another signal station and could be moved. Perhaps a yellow ring could be used to let the player know he had established contact. Orders could be sent over the head of the enemy using the SC.

Commanding generals at the army and corp level will need to set up a HQ in a central area to their troops and a SC station nearby to receive non-courier orders and observations.

SC stations can be taken out by artillery or direct assault. They would be mounted and you could move them as needed to protect their safety and function. They would be very small groups of about 10 men or less.

The function of the SC was not just signaling orders but also intelligence/observations.

Now the problem, how/can do you place the signal station in tall buildings? I have no idea....

That's all for now, apologize for the length.

Regards,

Greg B)
Last edited by Gfran64 on Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hancock the Superb
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Hancock the Superb »

At Antietam, the only communication was by flag for both the Union and Confederate Armies...

However, at Gettysburg, Meade and Lee were much more active than the usual army commander, and thus relied on couriers and personal interviews more than anything else.
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Davinci
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Davinci »

Gfran64 ,

This is really a well written presentation, it’s always good to learn something new about the civil war, with regards to the lines of communication, and the passing of information.

But , from a practical point pertaining to the game, I don’t see how this will be such a benefit with current LOS, and the Jump Map that is already in place.

I mean, you can put any unit on the highest point and get this information via the jump map, unless you plan on taking the information away from the jump map.

Now, this can be taken several ways, from a single player perspective , or from a multiplayer perspective .

Single Player - I don’t see the benefit, as already stated.

Multiplayer Player - Now, I can see a great benefit if the LOS is restricted to the player only viewing a certain part of the battlefield.


Example

The Highest Ranking Officer - is given two units of Signal Corps , if anything happens to them, ( i.e.…casualties ) they are removed from the game, and can’t be replaced.

He, would send them to the highest points and receive information back via a courier , once he has received the information from the courier, the units would appear on his jump map , but not the jump maps of the other players.

This would allow him to send couriers to all of the commanders under his command, and once the information is received, their jump maps would be updated also.

This would offer a great fog of war effect to the game, and open the door to blaming the commander officer, for not providing updated information about the whereabouts of the enemy forces.

Strictly, my opinion only!

davinci
The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
Hancock the Superb
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Hancock the Superb »

Bravo!!!

Very smart, Davinci!

However, I believe that the scenarios should be more realistic, so for example, if you were playing Sickles III Corps (single player) and your sharpshooters encountered Longstreet's troops, the commander should send a courier back to you that updates your map which shows those troops. Then you can see the enemy moving around if they are seen by the sharpshooters. When the sharpshooters go away, you get question marks on the map where the positions of the troops were last. Then, lets say the station on big round top saw the troops, they would send a courier to Meade, who would then send a courier to you. All within the scenario programming, then you can have it randomly happen that Meade refuses to give you the information b/c he isn't happy with you today, etc.

In addition to this, you should be bombarded with information and couriers. If the brigade at Devils Den has to leave, then Ward sends you a message explaning the problem. When Vincent comes up to protect the left, you get a message that says he's arrived. Updates arrive frequently from other brigade and division commanders during a new attack, new troop update, enemy movement - then we can rely less on the battle map to plan our assaults - th map should just be a list of positions last occupied by troops, then updated with new information. However, it would be troublesome to do this in now, but perhaps for Grog mode?
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Gfran64
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Gfran64 »

Thanks for the input guys. I like both your ideas. Hancock, I always thought that couriers would be great for reinforcements, ie "I'll be arriving on the field in 10 minutes at LRT." Helps a lot in planning ahead. Random delays could be placed to vary the arrival times. I was really looking for a way to avoid the long distance couriers thus having the general move to a place in the line so as not to route the courier into enemy lines. Rather, signal over the enemy to your other corp commanders. I'm so glad you guys took the time to read it. Thanks again for your input.

Greg B)
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Hancock the Superb »

Only my pleasure, sir. You come up with the good topics.:)
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by BOSTON »

What I like about Greg's subject is the unsripted messages to commanders, especially in large battles, where you might not have time to be on the minimap, trying to figure out what's where. The only problem would be, how many messages and to whom? Too many messages would be a distraction, if you have to stop the game to read each one. Unless there is an on screen message system the would'nt interupt play. Like in the way you see the distance to targets, but after a short time fade from the screen and kept in a log for later review. As much as I am a realist, I don't expect to see it in this game.

A good article none-the-less, Hoistingman4
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Hancock the Superb
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Hancock the Superb »

In TC2M, the gameplay stops when a message is recieved in most cases.
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by BOSTON »

Hancock the Superb wrote:
In TC2M, the gameplay stops when a message is recieved in most cases.


That's what I mean, cause if you are in the middle of clicking a move or what have you at a critical moment can be frustrating, especially with frequent messages. Or if you are looking at the minimap, There goes the minimap!
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Re:Senior Command and the Signal Corp or Generals and Wigwags

Post by Hancock the Superb »

I've never had the problem with clicking before. If I click at the same time, the click seems to take importance...
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