Freezing commanders and units in place, in GB

[Martin James]

A small team are currently working on a major upgrade of the Little Bighorn Campaign Mod. Among other new features, this will include a bespoke 10 x 10 mile map of the whole LBH area, new graphics, and a greater variety of formations and other player options.

We have run into one issue however, and would value some advice from anyone on the NSD team who worked on GB.

The Indian village will be represented by tepee sprites, rather than as terrain objects. This has the advantage that the position of the village can be randomised, thus forcing the player(s) representing the US Army to search for it, as they needed to do historically. It also means that the tepees can potentially be captured or destroyed. For some scenarios, we need to be able to freeze these units in place, as we do not want the village to move. This was the case with Custer’s battle for example, where lax Indian scouting meant that the village was surprised.

In theory this should be quite straightforward, as the game appears to offer 3 options to achieve it:

1. In unitglobal.csv – we can set the speed of a commander or unit in Columns E (walk) and F (run). So tepees can be set to zero.

2. In drills.csv – we can specify that a commander or unit cannot move by putting a ‘1’ in Column Q.

3. In drills.csv – we can slow the speed of a commander or unit by putting an appropriate figure in Column K. Whilst we cannot reduce tepee speed to zero by this method, we can input a figure which causes it to be so slow that any movement is imperceptible.

Unfortunately, none of the above methods appears to be effective. It appears to us that a minimum speed (perhaps 1 mph?) is hardcoded in the game, and this seems to override any of the settings in the logistics files.

We are very much hoping that this is not the case, or if it is, that some kind NSD team member knows of a workaround please.

Martin (J)

[RebBugler]

If represented in scenarios, TC and unitlock should work for preventing movement.

For sandbox the drills, can't move, should work. Make sure the unit sprite only has that one formation and only that formation appears in all the formation columns pertaining to it in unitglobal. Just guessing on this though, I haven't ventured in this 'unit as sprite' arena.

[Crikey]

Alternatively, just have a historic version of the map for historic scenarios. Place the teepee sprites as terrain on that one. Have an non-historic version for sandbox with unit teepee sprites that move. B)

[Martin James]

Many thanks for suggestions Reb & Crikey

If represented in scenarios, TC and unitlock should work for preventing movement.

That sounds promising. The mod will contain a number of scenarios. Is there any way of somehow extending this to sandbox?

For sandbox the drills, can't move, should work. Make sure the unit sprite only has that one formation and only that formation appears in all the formation columns pertaining to it in unitglobal. Just guessing on this though, I haven't ventured in this 'unit as sprite' arena.

Unfortunately this one doesn't. We have checked and re-checked the formations in drills. We have one formation for each of Level 4, 5 and 6 'camp' commanders, and all reference just each other.

Alternatively, just have a historic version of the map for historic scenarios. Place the teepee sprites as terrain on that one. Have an non-historic version for sandbox with unit teepee sprites that move.

That is one option, and probably the fall-back position. The current version of the map has tepees as terrain, and very impressive the camp looks too - literally hundreds of tepees! A bit scary when you see the extent of it from the bluffs, at the head of just 5 cavalry companies.

If forced to go down this path, we will indeed allow the tepees to move in sandbox, and they will convert to travois sprites when doing so. But that would be limiting in a number of ways. Not only would it always allow the camp to move (and normally when the army got close enough to attack, it was too close for that to happen), but there are other factors which we cannot represent, such as a potential loss of Indian morale from tepee sprites 'routing'. That will have implications for say, Reno's attempted charge.

All further comments welcome chaps.

Martin (J)

[RebBugler]

If represented in scenarios, TC and unitlock should work for preventing movement.

That sounds promising. The mod will contain a number of scenarios. Is there any way of somehow extending this to sandbox?

No, sandbox can't be scripted at all. In lieu of sandbox I suggest building a 'select unit' scenario. It can be made to play like sandbox by scripting random positionings, player can select unit and side, and all scripting is available.

[Crikey]

You mentioned tepees packing up. So do your teepee sprites limber and unlimber like artillery? If so, is there a separate trait in the csvs that impacts on limbering time or is the time taken for this swept into general speed settings? Or have you just changed the movement Sprite to show a travois whilst standing still is a teepee?

Hope that makes sense.

[Martin James]

Many thanks again guys........

No, sandbox can't be scripted at all. In lieu of sandbox I suggest building a 'select unit' scenario. It can be made to play like sandbox by scripting random positionings, player can select unit and side, and all scripting is available.

This sounds interesting. I've never tried building a 'select unit' scenario. As well as scripting random deployment, can we also script a random OOB from a selection provided in a master OOB?

You mentioned tepees packing up. So do your teepee sprites limber and unlimber like artillery? If so, is there a separate trait in the csvs that impacts on limbering time or is the time taken for this swept into general speed settings? Or have you just changed the movement Sprite to show a travois whilst standing still is a teepee?

Hope that makes sense.

Yes, eminent sense. Treating tepee sprites as supply units is not possible, as they do not display properly, and do not have an alternate state. As you guessed, at the moment we therefore treat the tepees as artillery type units, with the tepees as the 'unlimbered' state, and the travois as the 'limbered' state. They are armed, but the weapons are useless and the tepees have very low morale.

In a general sense, having it take a substantial time to change from one state to another would be realistic, if that can be done in the csv's. Taking this further, it might even be a solution to the issue of freezing them in place, if we could set the transition time for say several hours.

Perhaps someone might know if that can be done? Reb?

Martin (J)

[Saddletank]

One of the unit stats governs unlimber/limber time. I am not sure if its close order, open order or horsemanship, but setting those to 1 in turn may reveal something helpful. I don't think the game recognises a rating of 0... but it might. It does for experience, but not all stats may be handled in the same way.

[Martin James]

Thanks Saddletank. Still interested in investigating this route. Even if we cannot use it to freeze units, it would still be good to reflect the time it would have taken to assemble or dismantle a tepee.

Can someone from NSD please advise on how this setting works please, and on what the effective limits are on the time it takes?

Thanks

Martin (J)

[Martin James]

A few days ago RebBugler suggested building a 'select unit' scenario. That was helpful, and would no doubt would work in SP, but am advised that you cannot do it in MP. So unfortunately we cannot use it.

I think there are 3 questions outstanding, which hopefully some kind member of the NSD team can help us with please:

1. Is a minimum speed for all units effectively hard-coded in GB, which prevents us freezing them in place?

2. Is there a workaround available?

3. How can we modify the time it takes for units to change status (eg artillery limbering or unlimbering), and are there any limits on the time-settings?

Martin (J)