Fascinating....

Let's talk about the issues in converting the SOW engine to handle Waterloo. Ideas, suggestions, feature requests, comments.
MarkT
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Fascinating....

Post by MarkT »

Despite all the work I have recently done on SOW Gettysburg, my first love is the Napoleonic Wars. After neglecting this forum for a long time, I am dismayed to find more attention is given to EVERY OTHER minor war of the period, than to Napoleonics. Billions of marvelous sprites. There is a severe lack of adequate sprites for the war waterloo was writen for.. Hell, even some staple Austrians and Russians would open the door to a great library of games. It is a shame.
Kevin, with the KS group has done some pretty remarkable stuff, while packing it all into a dinosaur of a mod. It is like a black hole. Everything gets sucked in. Unfortunately, If you don't like some features, you are stuck. But there are some very fine features too. All of my napoleonic maps are going to stay out of the public. A very bad vibe has been cast on the Naps community. Maybe someday, sprites will magically appear and I will play them.

I also see this forum is slowly fading away. A shame. I have a lot of maps to do for SOWGB
Mark S. Tewes
RALB
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by RALB »

Last edited by RALB on Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
MarkT
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by MarkT »

Lace war maps are nice, very nice. But we are looking at Napoleonic wars SPRITES.
I have my own historical Nap maps. Thanks.
Mark S. Tewes
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Little Powell
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by Little Powell »

I don't think the period is intentionally being ignored, it's just hard to find sprite makers. It's a pretty intense process which involves 3D modeling every troop detail (and you know how flamboyant the Napoleonic uniforms can get) then rendering to 2D.
mitra76
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by mitra76 »

In the cent jours mod Gunship (Andrew) added some austrian,hessian and wurttemberg troops. The plan is to add more and more units for every new update of mod thanks to Andrew work
Visit my wargames blog: http://warforgame.blogspot.it/
Davinci
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by Davinci »

I don't think the period is intentionally being ignored, it's just hard to find sprite makers. It's a pretty intense process which involves 3D modeling every troop detail (and you know how flamboyant the Napoleonic uniforms can get) then rendering to 2D.
I think that the "Sprites" have served their purpose, and it's time to move towards the 3D Models.

The Real World Battlefields look great, but the sprites are never going to attract that many new users.

I have started playing the NTW - Civil War Mod, and it's not because of the great "AI" but that the 3D Models are a lot better to look at!

One must always think about the tomorrows to come, and not about the yesterdays that have pasted!

davinci
The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
MarkT
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by MarkT »

I am VERY much aware of the diversity of the Uniforms, BUT,
Austrian Infantry - Two types Helmeted and Shko - White uniforms
Austrian Cavalry - Hussar, Ulan, Curassieur
Russian Uniforms - Musketeers and Guard
Russian Cavalry - Hussar, Cossack, Curassieur
One type of artillery to start for each...

Add from there. Just these would enable a lot of options. AND INSPIRATION!!!!
You want accurate maps, I will give you accurate maps.

ALSO, What is this about another WATERLOO? or is this just old rehashed? :dry:
Mark S. Tewes
DarkRob
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by DarkRob »

I don't think the period is intentionally being ignored, it's just hard to find sprite makers. It's a pretty intense process which involves 3D modeling every troop detail (and you know how flamboyant the Napoleonic uniforms can get) then rendering to 2D.
I think that the "Sprites" have served their purpose, and it's time to move towards the 3D Models.

The Real World Battlefields look great, but the sprites are never going to attract that many new users.

I have started playing the NTW - Civil War Mod, and it's not because of the great "AI" but that the 3D Models are a lot better to look at!

One must always think about the tomorrows to come, and not about the yesterdays that have pasted!

davinci
I think different things appeal to different people. For me the graphics and sprites of SOW were always good enough to get the job done. It just wasn't the selling point for me of the game. For me it was the scope of the game. Being able to fight huge epic battles at the battalion/squadron/battery level in real time was what sold me on the game.

Sure there may be games out there that look prettier than Scourge of War, but Ive never seen one that can do what Scourge of War can.

Graphically a lot of things that happen in this game are abstractions anyway. I mean none of you really believe when your troops garrison a building they are actually walking through walls right? Its enough to know that its just representing your troops entering the fort.

For an old board wargamer like me, its a quantum leap above cardboard counters and hex maps.

Heres what I really think about though, if the scourge of war engine is already over a decade old, and is STILL ahead of the curve mechcanically compared to other much newer games, just think what NorbSoft could come up with next.
Davinci
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by Davinci »

Sure there may be games out there that look prettier than Scourge of War, but Ive never seen one that can do what Scourge of War can.

Heres what I really think about though, if the scourge of war engine is already over a decade old, and is STILL ahead of the curve mechcanically compared to other much newer games, just think what NorbSoft could come up with next.
I'm not in No way trying to put the game down, I have spent a lot of time with this series going back to CWBR.

But, here is just a comparison of the competition that has to be won over to be successful in this market.

According to the data from "Steam"

Scourge of War - Current Players = 9
Napoleon Total War - Current Players = 1087

Scourge of War - All Time Peak - 38 Players
Napoleon Total War - All Time Peak - 4650 Players

Now, everyone here knows that "Scourge of War" is a better game, and everyone else knows that "NTW" looks a whole lot better, and in this world of gaming, looks do matter!

That was basically My whole point, the "2D Sprites" have served their purpose, and it is time to move away from them if "NSD" wants to attract a larger following!

davinci
The only true logic is that, there is no true logic!
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RebBugler
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Re: Fascinating....

Post by RebBugler »

I agree completely with Rob, after being obsessive over my toy soldiers and setting up total room battlefields, spending hours moving one soldier at a time fighting a battle, eventually evolving to board games, then by high school the obsession wore off. Not until decades later did that obsession grab hold again when video games with 2D sprites emerged. Sure, the abstraction is there, but the gameplay is eons beyond my early battlefield endeavors...I've been hooked ever since their arrival.

I don't ever see 2D sprites being replaced, just being repurposed. They'll always be the most efficient way to produce tens of thousands of sprites on the battlefield. I see them as eventually being repurposed as the background or distance sprites used in conjunction with 3D sprites, which would appear at closer viewing distances. The SOW team discussed this off and on, but game engine and memory issues thwarted anything beyond discussion. Maybe something along these lines will come to fruition with a new engine and new technology...Here's hoping.

Back on thread, I thought Tim's new process of switching out headgear and jackets to save memory while providing for more uniform variances would open up a slew of new sprite developments. Maybe Tim or Andrew will chime in on this possibility and possibly give some pointers to potential sprite developers.
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