Did Lincoln Start the Civil War?

[Braxton Bragg]

620,000 soldiers and an undetermined number of civilian casualties was the cost of War.
Hmm I wonder how many were the responsibility of the Lincoln admin?

Given that Lincoln called troops too.........put down the Rebellion :whistle:

Braxton Bragg

[KG_Soldier]

KG_soldier wrote:

I guess you're using the morally reprehensible definition of evil. And viewed by today's standards, no question slavery was evil. But it wasn't so cut and dry in the 1860s. To say the South was evil is misguided, in my opinion. Wrong? no doubt. Evil? sorry, no.

Moral relativism is a very slippery slope. In the 1930's in much of the world, national socialism wasn't viewed as evil but as an inevitable response to the Treaty of Versailles. Hitler was viewed as a godsend by the Germans.

And they were right. Without question, Versailles led to the rise of Hitler. His main promise was that he would end the burden of Versailles.

But let's not get off the subject at hand.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Braxton Bragg wrote:

Hmm I wonder how many were the responsibility of the Lincoln admin?

Zero. The leaders of the southern rebellion were responsible for each and every one.

[KG_Soldier]

All right. . . I can't help it. Perhaps the best work of revisionist history ever written. If you're a student of the 2nd WW, this book is a must read.

Absolutely fantastic.

The Origins of the Second World War, A.J.P. Taylor.

http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Second-Wo ... 0684829479

[KG_Soldier]

Braxton Bragg wrote:

Hmm I wonder how many were the responsibility of the Lincoln admin?

Zero. The leaders of the southern rebellion were responsible for each and every one.

My opinion is that Lincoln was a precursor to Stalin in that he had no sentiment regarding the lives of the soldiers of the North as Stalin had none for the soldiers of Russia.

Stalin said that if it took ten Russians killed for every one German, he would win the war. I think Lincoln thought along those same lines. And Grant and Sherman were Lincoln's perfect instruments for obtaining the death of hundreds of thousands.

[Braxton Bragg]

The leaders of the southern rebellion were responsible for each and every one

Well now lemme get this straight Lincoln calls for 75000 troops to invade and force the south
back into Union......and yet its the Souths fault for defending it self against an invader ???
Oh and I guess these Union invaders will kill Southern people!

Engage Brain please!!!

Braxton Bragg

[RebBugler]

Yep, ya put lipstick on a pig and call em' an EVIL REBEL...got all the CS avatars goin'

Think the eventual point came across...evil slavery, and I can agree here, just don't appreciate Yanks, or anyone, labeling the southern cause as evil.

Moral compass? Excellent point, makes evil acceptable. Moral compass of the South during the 1860's - the Bible...as long as blacks were considered 'less than human', it wasn't evil to kidnap, own, and torture them. They were 'Beasts of Burden'.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

KG_Soldier wrote:

My opinion is that Lincoln was a precursor to Stalin in that he had no sentiment regarding the lives of the soldiers of the North as Stalin had none for the soldiers of Russia.

Stalin said that if it took ten Russians killed for every one German, he would win the war. I think Lincoln thought along those same lines. And Grant and Sherman were Lincoln's perfect instruments for obtaining the death of hundreds of thousands.

I hadn't really thought of that before, but you have a point, at least to how Stalin viewed the war. Although I may be wrong, I don't think even the Lost Causers accuse Lincoln of Gulags and forced starvation of his own people.

In this case Lincoln and Stalin have more company, as Roosevelt also subscribed to this 'arithmetic'.

BraxtonBragg wrote:

Well now lemme get this straight Lincoln calls for 75000 troops to invade and force the south
back into Union......and yet its the Souths fault for defending it self against an invader ???
Oh and I guess these Union invaders will kill Southern people!

Correct. You're catching on. There may be hope for you yet.

[Braxton Bragg]

Ok that was Funny MTG :laugh:

So if someone came into your garden with threats to kill you and your family
You would let them!!???? :sick:

Braxton Bragg

[Marching Thru Georgia]

RebBugler wrote:

Yep, ya put lipstick on a pig and call em' an EVIL REBEL...got all the CS avatars goin'

That was the plan. I can't avoid the temptation to watch the southern revisionist tie themselves in knots while trying to defend the indefensible. It's wonderful live theater.

Think the eventual point came across...evil slavery, and I can agree here, just don't appreciate Yanks, or anyone, labeling the southern cause as evil.

Judge for yourself. Declaration of Causes of Secession
Those 4 states wrote their reasons for rebelling. A word count for slave or slavery yields 83 occurrences. Do the same for the confederate constitution and you will find the 'peculiar institution' mentioned 10 times. The US version has 2 mentions of the word.

To paraphrase a distinguished southern philosopher, F. Gump: Evil is as evil does.