Taking sides

[O. O. Howard]

Hancock the Superb wrote:

...theme song from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...

Excuse me, gentlemen...

I'm sorry I'm a touch late, but I had to get a clean shirt.

In 2nd Manassas, I had a large liking for the likes of the Regulars, Army of the Potomac...

I wish they were apart of the 2nd Corps... (maybe we'll just have to exchange divisions)

As far as those peoples are concerned, I believe that Longstreet's Corps is one of the best...

However, due to the fact that such old-timers such as Little Powell, Ephrum, and (my Jedi Master B) ), JC Edwards, are on the side of gray, I believe that in order to fill out the roster, I must join the side of my dear troops from...

THE SECOND ARMY CORPS, ARMY OF THE POTOMAC.

(And those famous troops from General Banks command in the Valley, the 14th Indiana, 4th and 8th Ohio, and 7th West Virginia...)

I wish everyone a good fight, and may the best commander win!

The interest in the 2nd Corps is clear, but I didn't know you liked the regulars. Interesing. I didn't know that they had much of a fan base. That is one division that I have never taken much of an interest in for some reason. Despite liking the 5th NY.

[Hancock the Superb]

Which side do I choose? I like both.
I can't have it both ways.....or keep walking the fence......what would tip the scale.......oh yeah! I always root for the Underdog! And clearly that would be the Confederates!

What are you talking about?! The Union are obviously the underdogs until after G-burg!

[Ephrum]

Hancock the Superb wrote:

Which side do I choose? I like both.
I can't have it both ways.....or keep walking the fence......what would tip the scale.......oh yeah! I always root for the Underdog! And clearly that would be the Confederates!

What are you talking about?! The Union are obviously the underdogs until after G-burg!

The Union were always better fed, better equipped. And usually had more men, and more guns. Their ability to produce materials for war exceeded the Confederacy by leaps and bounds. They just didn't have much success against the ANV, until G-burg.

I think the Confederates were the underdog from the start.

[Hancock the Superb]

The Confederates beat the Union at almost every engagement in the Eastern Theater until G-burg! Talk about demoralizing! It's like being beat by JC every day of the week, then one day, you strike back and defeat him! The Army of the Potomac was definitly the underdog.

[Ephrum]

Hancock the Superb wrote:

The Confederates beat the Union at almost every engagement in the Eastern Theater until G-burg! Talk about demoralizing! It's like being beat by JC every day of the week, then one day, you strike back and defeat him! The Army of the Potomac was definitly the underdog.

On paper the AoP were the superior force. They weren't the underdogs, they just under-achieved.

[Hancock the Superb]

If you persist, there may be some thourough thrashing of the "underdogs" done by us men in blue! :laugh: In MP.

But, lets imagine for a second that all of the bounty never mattered. We have Lee, invading Pennsylvania. Men could figure out that if they lost this battle, the would probably lose the war (but that's debateable). Every battle since the 1st Bull Run, they lost or tied (with the exception of Seven Pines, if you can call that a victory.) It is obvious that the Union troops don't think well of their commanders, and feel that they probably will lose. However, the right Union commanders are in the right places at the right times, with the Confederates in the wrong places at the wrong times, and so, the Union wins the battle. If we take the forces as equals (which they could be - Napoleon always said that if you could convince the enemy that they would lose, the battle is half won), due to experience and moral on the Confederate side, and supplies and reinforcements on the Union side (not worrying about ground), I believe that they are very similar in terms of everything combined. In that case, the poor Army of the Potomac would be the underdog because most things are not in their favor (mainly confidence). Now after Gettysburg, I would agree that the AotP was definitly not an underdog.

[Ephrum]

Hancock, I cannot disagree what your saying, in terms of morale. I think it had a profound effect on a number of the Union Generals, and consequently the Union soldiers had little if any faith in their top commanders.
But because of battles like Antietam and Chancellorsville, I don't think the Union soldiers believed the Confederates were a better army, but maybe better led. So in that respect, maybe some of them saw themselves as an underdog.

And there's little doubt the Confederate soldiers believed they were the better army, but they also saw themselves as the underdogs from the start, i.e. the First Battle of Bull Run. And all that bounty did matter to them, because of their growling empty stomach's, bare feet and lack of blankets, etc.

But you make some great points, that I can't completely disagree with. B)

And for the record, I suspect you men in Blue will be trying to thrash us in MP, whether I persist or not! :laugh:

[Kerflumoxed]

"Oh, I come from ol' Manassas with a pocket full of fun,
I kilt 40 Yankees with a single barrel gun,
But, it don't make a 'niff-a-difference, to either you or I,
Big Yankee, little Yankee, all run or die!"

Flight of the Doodles as sung by Tennessee Ernie Ford on his Civil War Centennial "Songs of the South."

J :woohoo:

[O. O. Howard]

Ephrum wrote:

And for the record, I suspect you men in Blue will be trying to thrash us in MP, whether I persist or not! :laugh:

Of course we will try to thrash you. That goes without saying!

I would have to agree with Hancock the Superb on this one though. Going into the Gettysburg campaign I think you can be pretty sure that the Army of Northern Virginia felt pretty sure of itself and the likelihood of defeating the Army of the Potomac. You can also be pretty sure that the AOP had experienced a lot of defeats and would have found it hard to imagine themselves winning a clearly decisive victory over the ANV in its entirety.

Now, as up and coming, powerful and strategic Army of the Potomac multiplayer teams we may not have the same defeatist attitude, as you mentioned above. However, it certainly was there in the 1st half of 1863.

[Armchair General]

O. O. Howard wrote:

I would have to agree with Hancock the Superb on this one though. Going into the Gettysburg campaign I think you can be pretty sure that the Army of Northern Virginia felt pretty sure of itself and the likelihood of defeating the Army of the Potomac. You can also be pretty sure that the AOP had experienced a lot of defeats and would have found it hard to imagine themselves winning a clearly decisive victory over the ANV in its entirety.

[/quote]

You're all forgetting Malvern Hill, a year before Gettysburg. The entirety of AOtP was on that hill and saw the damage that they inflicted on the rebel masses. At the end of July 1st (1862) they knew they had clearly won a 'complete' victory over the ANV. So from then the Army knew that they could win, they just didn't have the proper commanders to get the job done.