Regiments manoeuvre too easily, too quickly... ?

[Kip]

Hi,

Firstly I am a huge fan of the game so this should be seen just as a discussion of a minor tweak that may be needed.

I have noticed that the regiments do manoeuvre, wheel for example, very quickly and easily. According to my reading of Nosworthy and like..... including some of the narrative histories.... the process of manoeuvre on the battlefield, particularly after contact, was far slower and more messy.

It is modelled very well, looks great, looks real, but I would suggest slowing the process such that a wheeling regiment takes twice the time it currently does. With other manoeuvres similarly increased in time. I am not asking for an orders delay, players would find this frustrating. Just to slow down the speed with which the troops do all their manoeuvres.

Great simulation..... best ACW game by far,
All the best,
Kip.

[Amish John]

Kip wrote:

I would suggest slowing the process such that a wheeling regiment takes twice the time it currently does. Just to slow down the speed with which the troops do all their manoeuvres.
All the best,
Kip.

Per Casey’s, common time is 90 steps per minute x 28” per step = 2520”/min = 210’/min

Assuming a 300 man regiment (150 front rank, 150 rear rank) with 2’ per man gives you a 300’ front. Wheeling 90 degrees, the man on the outside of the wheel has to travel 471 feet (300’ radius x 3.1416 [pi]/2). 471’/210’ per minute = 2.25 minutes for a 300 man regiment to wheel 90 degrees, theoretically.

I'm at work now, so not sure how long it takes in the game. Much quicker, I'm sure. This may be one of those sacrifices we have to make to reality in order to maintain acceptable game play pace. Like you said in your post, maybe twice the time would be OK???

And as anyone who has actually performed a wheel in the field can confirm, if the line doesn't have a bow in the middle of it during the wheel, it's not realistic :laugh:

[UglyElmo]

Amish John wrote:

Kip wrote:

I would suggest slowing the process such that a wheeling regiment takes twice the time it currently does. Just to slow down the speed with which the troops do all their manoeuvres.
All the best,
Kip.

Per Casey’s, common time is 90 steps per minute x 28” per step = 2520”/min = 210’/min

Assuming a 300 man regiment (150 front rank, 150 rear rank) with 2’ per man gives you a 300’ front. Wheeling 90 degrees, the man on the outside of the wheel has to travel 471 feet (300’ radius x 3.1416 [pi]/2). 471’/210’ per minute = 2.25 minutes for a 300 man regiment to wheel 90 degrees, theoretically.

It's obvious you haven't put much detailed thought into this Amish John! :laugh: You sure your previous occupation wasn't as an actuary or econometrics professor? Now my head hurts. :woohoo:

You SOW guys constantly amaze me with how much effort went into this game to try and get it as accurate as possible, when possible.

[Garnier]

The problem with slowing down wheeling would be that units often wheel on their own initiative when we don't want them to. It's best if they can get it over with quickly to minimize frustration.

[PANGI]

Garnier wrote:

The problem with slowing down wheeling would be that units often wheel on their own initiative when we don't want them to. It's best if they can get it over with quickly to minimize frustration.

Yes, that's definitely problem but i agree with that the regiment rotating is too quick. I think it kills important part of regimental management.

EDIT: One thing i really hate: Regiment are even capable to march under fire to enemy and stop in front of him in 90 degrees (flank) and then in 2 seconds (double quick) rotate to face him...something really should be done about this

[Vincent83]

Personally I think it would just be tedious and frusturating.

You must understand there has to be a balance between realism and playability. Too much of one and you lose the other.

[GShock]

He is DEFINITELY right on the fact that regiments wheel and change formation too quickly. I think this should be worked on by just slowing down their speed when they manouver but that's not really a top priority, there are others.

I can't remember last time I bought a game at the v1.0 but I do remember it wasn't nearly as polished as this one. This is easily the best 1.0 I ever saw. Compliments not only to the DEVs but also to all testers. You guys must have been eating bugs for Breakfast!

[PANGI]

Yes, as was said before if regiment will rotate randomly it probably will be difficult to do something about it, but i think regimental maneuvering - essential aspect of this warfare - should be represent as realisticaly as possible -> IF possible. So no playability question are relevant.

[Janh]

Garnier wrote:

Yes, that's definitely problem but i agree with that the regiment rotating is too quick. I think it kills important part of regimental management.

EDIT: One thing i really hate: Regiment are even capable to march under fire to enemy and stop in front of him in 90 degrees (flank) and then in 2 seconds (double quick) rotate to face him...something really should be done about this

I agree, and for my 3days at Gettysburg scenario looked into this. When I slowed it down so that a regimental turn took about 1 min, it was more efficient and fun to outflank AI units. Unfortunately this put AI at a huge disadvantage: image your above scenario, AI moves to attack, and as so often presents flank first... You'd slaughter the AI faster. After all this is a game, and needs to have some approximations otherwise Norb&Co would spent the next 3 years exclusively developing the AI routines, with nothing else on top. And I think there would be more valuable things to do than to fine-tune this, such as a FOF type campaign mode...

[PANGI]

Janh wrote:
I agree, and for my 3days at Gettysburg scenario looked into this. When I slowed it down so that a regimental turn took about 1 min, it was more efficient and fun to outflank AI units. Unfortunately this put AI at a huge disadvantage: image your above scenario, AI moves to attack, and as so often presents flank first... You'd slaughter the AI faster. After all this is a game, and needs to have some approximations otherwise Norb&Co would spent the next 3 years exclusively developing the AI routines, with nothing else on top. And I think there would be more valuable things to do than to fine-tune this, such as a FOF type campaign mode...

Sorry, but i think top priority is portray battles realistically then considering things such as campaigns and so - this game is farther than sid meier's gettysburg so every units odd behaviour kill atmosphere of the game. I know it isnt such easy to do it as to write complaints about it and i dont know about game engine so much to be able to know how difficult it will be. It's only mere note.