Being of few words:BOSTON wrote:Congrats, 1st on the list of Die Hards.What are you NUTS! TC forever/forever TC!
2nd on the list
Proposal: Retire TC
Re:Proposal: No Orders would replace TC
RebBugler wrote:
2nd on the list
2nd on the list
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
Retire TC! Are you kidding? Words cannot describe my utter :blink: -itude.
Note that I am a control freak and would likely rip my whiskers out without the option.
Note that I am a control freak and would likely rip my whiskers out without the option.
Sorry. I suffer from a serious case of typosis. Don't worry, it's not contagious 
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RebBugler
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Re:Proposal: Retire TC
garyknowz wrote:
Ok, got another way to approach this, we'll keep the cherished TC, and I'll propose another idea that will for me, retire TC, because this idea will give me all the control I need without interfering in the way other folks play the game. B)
I propose:
Make the present 'No Orders' command strong and unchanging unless opted by the player. This new strong 'No Orders' command would work both ways, orders can't be changed by superiors and subordinates can't opt their own agenda.
So, you give your division commander 'No Orders' from the toolbar, select the destination and formation, and your troops move to the destination. There would be no distractions from this movement unless engaged, and engagements would be handled as I've already explained. Once you arrive at your destination, your troops would remain in position until moved by you or you give them other orders from the toolbar.
So, keep TC, make 'No Orders' strong, and everyone's happy. :laugh:
Man, err...General man, I'm a control freak also. Oh, and, Congrats...Retire TC! Are you kidding? Words cannot describe my utter :blink: -itude.
Note that I am a control freak and would likely rip my whiskers out without the option.
Ok, got another way to approach this, we'll keep the cherished TC, and I'll propose another idea that will for me, retire TC, because this idea will give me all the control I need without interfering in the way other folks play the game. B)
I propose:
Make the present 'No Orders' command strong and unchanging unless opted by the player. This new strong 'No Orders' command would work both ways, orders can't be changed by superiors and subordinates can't opt their own agenda.
So, you give your division commander 'No Orders' from the toolbar, select the destination and formation, and your troops move to the destination. There would be no distractions from this movement unless engaged, and engagements would be handled as I've already explained. Once you arrive at your destination, your troops would remain in position until moved by you or you give them other orders from the toolbar.
So, keep TC, make 'No Orders' strong, and everyone's happy. :laugh:
Last edited by RebBugler on Sat May 08, 2010 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RebBugler
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Re:Proposal: No Orders would replace TC
J Canuck wrote:
The ol' GrayGhost :woohoo:
Really cool cannon, except when it's firing at me. Thought you were a Canadian ally, still, I just made a compromise, so hopefully we're international buds again.RebBugler wrote:Being of few words:BOSTON wrote:Congrats, 1st on the list of Die Hards.What are you NUTS! TC forever/forever TC!
2nd on the list
The ol' GrayGhost :woohoo:Bugles & Flags Gettysburg - Toolbar, Flags, Scenarios, and More...
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
Now that’s much better.RebBugler wrote:
So, keep TC, make 'No Orders' strong, and everyone's happy.
We’ll always be allied buds: shoulder to shoulder, through thick and thin, taking bullets, for better or worse, etc., etc.RebBugler wrote:
Thought you were a Canadian ally .....
(this site has neat smilies)I didn’t realise there is a permanent Canadian military presence under your Cheyenne Mountain until I saw a documentary last night. Only makes sense considering NORAD protects North America and Canada owns the biggest chunk – that includes the Northwest Passage you know;
however, I don’t want to highjack this thread.Re:Proposal: Retire TC
After seeing the awesome new courier system, I've been thinking it would be a cool idea to have different levels of "seriousness" with which you could send couriers. I also believe I've seen this idea mentioned by multiple people here and there on the boards.
The basic premise is that when sending couriers, you could choose an overall wording "stance" for your commands. Ranging from the cordial "if practicable" to threatening court martial in the case of disobedience. The lowest levels would leave the lesser extremes of subordinates to possibly disobey you, while the higher levels would only be disobeyed by the most extreme of commander of personalities.
Outside of the courier system, the attitude levels could be incorporated into the player character's "commands" button rock. That way, your character is set to a specific level of influence, and any clicks on subordinate button rocks would be received by the subordinate accordingly.
The wrinkle to the levels of attitude would be that depending on the personalities of subordinates and superiors, using the stronger attitudes too often may cause some officers to become completely unresponsive, ignoring you out of spite. Mouthing off to superiors could also have bad consequences, though I really don't know what would be possible.
I think a system like this could go a long way to fazing TC out, yet still allowing the kind of control we are used to. I don't think TC should ever be completely taken out, but perhaps totally eliminated from the 'historical' settings. I can't imagine the amount of fantastical coding it would take to totally eliminate all of the AI quirks that call for the TC option. If anyone could do it, Norb and co. would the people.
It may turn out to be too complicated or only a slight trade-off in micro-management as compared to what we have now, but I think the above, if it could be executed, would provide more realism, more interaction between commander personalities, and could help to reduce the use/allure of TC.
The basic premise is that when sending couriers, you could choose an overall wording "stance" for your commands. Ranging from the cordial "if practicable" to threatening court martial in the case of disobedience. The lowest levels would leave the lesser extremes of subordinates to possibly disobey you, while the higher levels would only be disobeyed by the most extreme of commander of personalities.
Outside of the courier system, the attitude levels could be incorporated into the player character's "commands" button rock. That way, your character is set to a specific level of influence, and any clicks on subordinate button rocks would be received by the subordinate accordingly.
The wrinkle to the levels of attitude would be that depending on the personalities of subordinates and superiors, using the stronger attitudes too often may cause some officers to become completely unresponsive, ignoring you out of spite. Mouthing off to superiors could also have bad consequences, though I really don't know what would be possible.
I think a system like this could go a long way to fazing TC out, yet still allowing the kind of control we are used to. I don't think TC should ever be completely taken out, but perhaps totally eliminated from the 'historical' settings. I can't imagine the amount of fantastical coding it would take to totally eliminate all of the AI quirks that call for the TC option. If anyone could do it, Norb and co. would the people.
It may turn out to be too complicated or only a slight trade-off in micro-management as compared to what we have now, but I think the above, if it could be executed, would provide more realism, more interaction between commander personalities, and could help to reduce the use/allure of TC.
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
Yes, it's the idea I had when pointing out how ROE could work (as in AACW) where stance means something less detailed and more discretional for the AI general to the extents you may set in the ROE themselves.
As of the TC, I also pointed out exactly the same, that TC should not be removed but in the Historical level all should be done by couriering which limits very much the ability to micromanage single regiments due to the time and risks taken by the courier to deliver messages. This obviously implies a further level of couriering which is not in (at least at the moment), the regimental (lowest level is BDE atm).
However, due to the nature of the current courier system where 1 courier is sent for every single order (and unfortunately some orders just won't work), before something like that can be done, courier pathing must be tweaked and the overall order to the recipient should be assembled one order at time and then just send 1 courier via a send button. Now, built like this, TC would become "obsolete" but as you said, such idea is better be kept for Historical level only... even though this level still has a few problems to be solved before it can be enjoyed.
I.E. it is impossible to handle troops if you can only direct them to a point you see, which means if you want to send a BDE out for a flanking manouver, you manually have to go with them otherwise you can't click where they should move because of camera restrictions.
I think the Historical level is really THE way to play the game. It changes things dramatically to actually be INSIDE the battle as compared to being ABOVE the battle.
As of the TC, I also pointed out exactly the same, that TC should not be removed but in the Historical level all should be done by couriering which limits very much the ability to micromanage single regiments due to the time and risks taken by the courier to deliver messages. This obviously implies a further level of couriering which is not in (at least at the moment), the regimental (lowest level is BDE atm).
However, due to the nature of the current courier system where 1 courier is sent for every single order (and unfortunately some orders just won't work), before something like that can be done, courier pathing must be tweaked and the overall order to the recipient should be assembled one order at time and then just send 1 courier via a send button. Now, built like this, TC would become "obsolete" but as you said, such idea is better be kept for Historical level only... even though this level still has a few problems to be solved before it can be enjoyed.
I.E. it is impossible to handle troops if you can only direct them to a point you see, which means if you want to send a BDE out for a flanking manouver, you manually have to go with them otherwise you can't click where they should move because of camera restrictions.
I think the Historical level is really THE way to play the game. It changes things dramatically to actually be INSIDE the battle as compared to being ABOVE the battle.
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
GShock wrote:
As far as the one courier per order thing, I was thinking of a solution akin to how adobe suite programs handle the selecting of multiple objects:
You begin the process by holding a specific key down, lets say "Shift". With your desired unit/subordinate selected, you then click on the desired order in their button rock. But the order is not processed nor sent until you let go of the "Shift" key. With this, you could select multiple commands, which would light up in a distinct way so that you know they have not been executed, and then once you release the "shift" key, a courier is sent with all of the information.
To put it another way, you basically set how you wish your unit's/subordinates's button rock to appear should they be carrying out your orders. Then you release the button, and the courier goes off. If the orders arrive and are accepted, the unit's/subordinate's button rock preferences now look the way you wished them to. The placing of destinations on the in-game map would function exactly the same way, and be completely compatible with the button rock selections.
If you want a regiment to move there, end in line formation, and double-quick it, then you would hold shift, set the destination, turn double-quick on, and select the line formation button. You would then release shift, the courier would deliver the order, and if it is accepted the regiment will change all of those things in the button rock and on the in-game field immediately and simultaneously.
Now, is this actually a good idea? I think so. But it isn't my call. Can all of that even be done? I have no idea as I know nothing about code.
See, I knew I had seen that idea before, and just let it fester in my head a bit.Yes, it's the idea I had when pointing out how ROE could work (as in AACW) where stance means something less detailed and more discretional for the AI general to the extents you may set in the ROE themselves.
As of the TC, I also pointed out exactly the same, that TC should not be removed but in the Historical level all should be done by couriering which limits very much the ability to micromanage single regiments due to the time and risks taken by the courier to deliver messages. This obviously implies a further level of couriering which is not in (at least at the moment), the regimental (lowest level is BDE atm).
However, due to the nature of the current courier system where 1 courier is sent for every single order (and unfortunately some orders just won't work), before something like that can be done, courier pathing must be tweaked and the overall order to the recipient should be assembled one order at time and then just send 1 courier via a send button. Now, built like this, TC would become "obsolete" but as you said, such idea is better be kept for Historical level only... even though this level still has a few problems to be solved before it can be enjoyed.
I.E. it is impossible to handle troops if you can only direct them to a point you see, which means if you want to send a BDE out for a flanking manouver, you manually have to go with them otherwise you can't click where they should move because of camera restrictions.
I think the Historical level is really THE way to play the game. It changes things dramatically to actually be INSIDE the battle as compared to being ABOVE the battle.
As far as the one courier per order thing, I was thinking of a solution akin to how adobe suite programs handle the selecting of multiple objects:
You begin the process by holding a specific key down, lets say "Shift". With your desired unit/subordinate selected, you then click on the desired order in their button rock. But the order is not processed nor sent until you let go of the "Shift" key. With this, you could select multiple commands, which would light up in a distinct way so that you know they have not been executed, and then once you release the "shift" key, a courier is sent with all of the information.
To put it another way, you basically set how you wish your unit's/subordinates's button rock to appear should they be carrying out your orders. Then you release the button, and the courier goes off. If the orders arrive and are accepted, the unit's/subordinate's button rock preferences now look the way you wished them to. The placing of destinations on the in-game map would function exactly the same way, and be completely compatible with the button rock selections.
If you want a regiment to move there, end in line formation, and double-quick it, then you would hold shift, set the destination, turn double-quick on, and select the line formation button. You would then release shift, the courier would deliver the order, and if it is accepted the regiment will change all of those things in the button rock and on the in-game field immediately and simultaneously.
Now, is this actually a good idea? I think so. But it isn't my call. Can all of that even be done? I have no idea as I know nothing about code.
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
Of course it can be done. If Norb wants, the game can even make the cofee for you, it's all about priorities.
I supppose this kind of "elite" settings are probably in use by just a few at this time and priorities at this stage must go to the CTD issues, sound issues and other very serious bugs before new features such as this can be added.
I am pleased by the progresses shown by the 1.01b2, the changelog is really impressive so there's a lot more to discover within the beauty of this game.
I supppose this kind of "elite" settings are probably in use by just a few at this time and priorities at this stage must go to the CTD issues, sound issues and other very serious bugs before new features such as this can be added.
I am pleased by the progresses shown by the 1.01b2, the changelog is really impressive so there's a lot more to discover within the beauty of this game.
Re:Proposal: Retire TC
GShock wrote:
What is this 1.01b2 patch and where can I find it?
Of course it can be done. If Norb wants, the game can even make the cofee for you, it's all about priorities.
I supppose this kind of "elite" settings are probably in use by just a few at this time and priorities at this stage must go to the CTD issues, sound issues and other very serious bugs before new features such as this can be added.
I am pleased by the progresses shown by the 1.01b2, the changelog is really impressive so there's a lot more to discover within the beauty of this game.
What is this 1.01b2 patch and where can I find it?