Infantry Stacking

[Kerflumoxed]

An interesting development in game tactics was demonstrated last evening during a MP game when the enemy forces advanced with the result that two infantry regiments were "stacked" on top of each other and both were firing at the friendly line. This is historically incorrect and extremely "gamey".

Historically, it was physically impossible for a "3rd" & "4" ranks to safely fire through a 1st and 2nd rank. During the war, there was 13 inches between the back of the front-rank man and the chest of the rear- rank man in the two-rank formation. This spacing was important because it allowed the rear-rank man to level his musket over the shoulder of the front-rank man and fire without having either the musket-cap ignition or the muzzle blast adversely affecting the front-rank man. Since the standard rifle-musket had three bands holding the barrel to the stock, the middle-band was "standard" gauge for the proper placement of musket alongside the front-rank man's ear.

If a third/fourth rank had been introduced, as is being done in the game, the muzzle-blast would "fry" the hair, ears, et.al., of the men in front! As Martha Stewart said upon entering the Federal pen, "This is not a good thing!"

As to the game, the "gamey" aspect enters into play when the advancing player's "Infantry Stack" fires, both regiments are firing at the defending player while he can only fire at the closest regiment since there is no "pentration" fire through to the rear regiment. This gives the advancing player a distinct advantage. Further, while some state that this represents Melee, in actual practice it does not simply because the two regiments remain in "line" firing "at will" rather than "clubbing." Hopefully, this issue will be addressed in the future or, at the very least, MP players mutually agree not to utilize this tactic.

One other "gamey" tactic currently in use (and I am among the guilty) is the firing of cannon "through" the supporting infantry in front of the artillery muzzles! I understand that canister cannot, in theory, any longer be fired in this manner in the game. The same should have been true for the other types of shot as well. True, there were artillery pieces in the front lines defending against Pickett's Charge and other examples are recorded as well. But, in general terms, these were the exceptions to the rule

Finally, the ability of cavalry to charge while in column is another "gamey" tactic. Although, attacking in column was the "standard" for attacking an infantry square, it was extremely deadly to the participants! This needs to corrected as well.

Thanks for your time.

J

[kg_sspoom]

I am the one who used this "gamey"(? I disagree with it being gamey) tactic and here is what I saw happen and what I did. 6 player game, custom oob with 2 divisions of 2 brigades
for each side and and 12-14 guns for each side. All players (except 1?) Involved have used
this oob and it is believed to be very balanced.( not perfect but very close)

2 federals vs 4 Rebs

Over an hour into a game that was extremely competitive, at least 2-3 major attacks and counter attacks had the Rebs lined up in a tree line single and double lines of Infantry and
atleast 1 battery of artillery in the front(or slightly behind) line holding off the Federal Infantry. I had 2 brigades, the 1st in line(single line) the other brigade was stacked behind the 2nd from right regiment in my front brigade. The 2nd brigade was in a column of regiments in line (4 regiments 1 behind the other) behind the 2nd regiment of the 1st brigade.
This setup was (2nd brig) directly across from the junction of the Reb battery and the Infantry supporting the batteries right flank.(there was Inf support on both flanks of battery)
My front line regiment in front of 2nd brigade advanced at angle to right to clear path for 2nd brigade which then doubletimed for the junction between guns and Infantry to attempt to break through the Reb line and split the line and hopefully drive off arty.

When 2nd Brigade was within charging range(very close 20 yards or less) they charged as did the next regiment in line and the regiment that moved to form gap also charged, they engaged in melee the Reb units that moved forward to protect guns/line. When the melee was heavily under way the rest of both brigades pushed forward into the gap some pivoting left and some to the right to engage the Rebs.

The middle was chaos with atleast 3-4 different Melees going in a small space while fresh troops pushed forward into the mess.

On the right of this scrap 2 Federal regiments ended up stacked directly in the same spot
(both flags were right together basically on top of each other) To me it appeared that the lines were integrated as they both appeared to be firing but I couldnt tell for sure.
Both unit flags occupied exactly the same spot.

The Feds pushed the Rebs back a bit but were so disorganised / tired they couldnt exploit the opportunity and had to fall back minus 3 (out of 8)regiments 2 of which were captured.
At this point both sides were fought out and both pulled back to rest. I really have no Idea what happened to the battery if they were captured/routed or pulled back I do remember my men ate 3-5 canister blasts at close range during rush forward.

Game over Federals won with a score of 3. Really it was a draw as we were all worn out

Gamey tactic? I dont think so as it isnt a tactic of mine to stack 2 units in same space as I really have no Idea how the game mechanics react to that.

Units occuppying the same space in a chaotic battle or battleline is nothing new(IMHO)
it seems to occur in most of the games I have seen that get wild and really Intense.

As far as the 3-4 deep lines firing that isnt what I saw on the field, I saw 2 lines of men
in 1 line which would (to me) simulate the 2nd regiment advancing right up into the 1st regiments line and fighting as 1 unit mixed. We all (should?) know that in combat during
the War between the States often degraded to the point where units were mixed and fighting alongside men from different companies/regiments/brigades. They kept fighting and werent really worried about the fact that their lines werent dressed properly.

Now there may be an Issue if the game mechanics doesnt allow the 2nd unit to be targeted
but if they were firing I would assume they could be fired back at.

Also if they were facing 1 regiment that regiment could only do so much damage and that damage is still being done whether it is to 1 regiment or 2. 100 rounds fired effect X amount of men whether it effecs 1 unit or is divided between 2.

I really enjoy this game and our MP games get pretty Intense.
Its a riot and too bad more dont join in the fun.

We play most weekdays around 7 pm e.s.t.

[NY Cavalry]

The game isn't perfect and will allow some funny stuff from time to time. I've never seen regiments stacked together yet. Maybe, it was just some quirk.
Personally, I don't see a problem with cavalry charging in column. This happened a lot in the war. I would just like to see the speed of column slowed down a bit for infantry and a lot more damage done to units caught in column. That is the only way players will refrain from from using column in the face of the enemy.
There should be a gentleman's rule about mixing infantry and artillery. They have artillery down pretty good, just not perfect. It is very playable though.
More players should try out MP, it is a blast and terribly challenging. I play about all I can.

[RDBoles]

I think I tried to get in that game but couln't for some reason. I got into the next one and I some how tried to get into the middle between the flanks. I was ignorant about the two lines fireing over or through each other. But one thing I tried to do was bring a fresh regiment from behind and through another regiment and then charge the opposing regiment with the fresh regiment. I don't know if this legal or not but my thinking on this battle field is a fresh regiment has a better chance of doing better in the melee.

[NY Cavalry]

There is no problem moving a fresh regiment through one on the front line. Sometimes it is hard to do. What I usually do is bring a fresh regiment directly behind the one I am trying to replace. Then I hit fallback on the front line regiment. If you try to move through the front line regiment sometimes the regiment wants to move to the flank and walk around the line instead of through it.

[RDBoles]

That was exactly what happened on my left flank when I tried to get through the regiment it veired to the left and I halted it. I thought a moment and backed the front regiment a little and it worked then.

[RebBugler]

But were all the stacked troops firing? Check the smoke, they may look engaged, but unless there's smoke, they're not firing, because parts of regiment can be blocked from targeting. We've done tons of testing on this, and the game does a pretty good job of blocking fire. Sometimes only 2 or 3 troops can target, but it appears the whole regiment is engaged...the smoke coming from only those few troops.

Maybe the game will evolve to showing different action sprites within units, e.g., firing and resting, until then, smoke signals. :silly:

[RDBoles]

Last night I did see that two of my regiments were firing and were only about 30 to 50 yards behind. One thought I had was the rear regiment might be elevated a little. Thus firing over the heads of the other regiment. I don't know how high up the rear regiment can be when doing that. The other thought I had was that the front regiment must be getting a few "back of the head" shots. There was alot of smoke so maybe there was a few gaps in the front line.

[IronBMike]

Ok, time to vent. I am sick and tired of people complaining about other players using "unrealistic" and "gamey" methods. If it's in the game, it's allowed. Gentlemen's rules will NOT work, no matter how hard you try to implement them into the community. Stacking infantry? Charging in columns? Manually retreating guns? Cavalry dashes? It's ALL going to happen, so deal with it.

There is nothing you can do. If it's in the game, people will use it.

[RDBoles]

Thank you. To me it makes sense. During the Civil War, inovations and new methods of doing things on the battle field were constantly being developed to always get an upper hand over the opposing foe. New tactics, new strategies, new weapons. This game is constantly being improved to simulate the Civil war era yes. Sometimes players pick up on ways to get the upper hand to win. When enough purists complain I guess Norb can fix the bugs. But I'm sure other bugs will be found. I love this game!!!