Toolbar sans Keyboard play

[RebBugler]

The number one gripe I hear in the MP chat is about players that gamey play with unrealistic and extreme non historic tactics.

TC is the root of 90+ per cent of this unorthodox behavior, I'm convinced. And, more accurately, TC on lvl 6, regiments and guns.

A modded toolbar, mandatory for selected competitive play, would remedy this. However, enter the Keyboard...this would allow that pesky TC or whatever was gamied out, to still mess with the desired competitive setup.

Whether the Keyboard commands can be disabled, I don't know. And whether enough folks would go for this idea, that is also a big question. For a fact, LP will nix it, for he is a Keyboard fanatic, don't think he even knows the toolbar is there.

Regardless, thought I would throw this topic out, and see if it goes anywhere. Or, what I call, goin' fishin'.

[Boyd]

How would no keyboard rule out TC? I TC with my mouse. What am I missing? I like the idea though of having a modded toolbar for competitive play. How can it be verified that all players are using the modded toolbar?

[RebBugler]

How would no keyboard rule out TC? I TC with my mouse. What am I missing? I like the idea though of having a modded toolbar for competitive play. How can it be verified that all players are using the modded toolbar?

TC, or any command, is easily eliminated with a modded toolbar, you don't select TC with your mouse, you get it from the toolbar, or keyboard.

What mods are being played is verified with the host, so no one can have an altered or extra mod running during that specific play. This is, and has been for a while, built into the game engine.

Thanks for your input...

[Marching Thru Georgia]

From what I've read, TC doesn't seem to be the issue, it's the tactics. The MP play sounds as if it is just miniature play without the lead soldiers. The players make every move and the computer is nothing more than a record keeper and dice roller. I did miniature gaming for nearly 30 years and I had a lot of fun playing that way. The big difference is that the play is not face to face but anonymous. In miniature play, if someone in the group tried to use non-historic tactics he would be verbally savaged until he reformed. There's nothing quite like a bunch of beer swilling oafs getting in your face and 'gently' reminding you that your play is inappropriate. It's either reform or get loss.

Due to the anonymity of the internet that sort of peer pressure doesn't exist. Perhaps house rules with an enforcer/umpire would quell some of the issues. If a violation is detected then the game would be restarted from the last save.

[SouthernSteel]

Yes, believe me, we've tried that to no avail. Seal feeds on negative vibes. In this instance, MTG, what we would need is an auto-kick or ban feature, because that's the only way he's going to get lost. Would there be a way to add a feature where someone could be a ref? Pause the game/keep score/etc? I don't know how feasible it would be, but introducing that as an alternate game mode in MP would be cool, especially for tournaments and the like.

Honestly, though, it's be fine with me if he (and whoever else) would just drop that stuff, but it hasn't happened yet and I'm not holding out hope. Still, we can't afford to run anyone off directly (although this style of gameplay has run numerous people off) because the community isn't large enough to sustain the loss of regular players. We only get 1-3 games a day as is, if we're lucky.

[RebBugler]

From what I've read, TC doesn't seem to be the issue, it's the tactics.

To the contrary, I am convinced that TC enables those tactics. Otherwise, folks could not move their troops any closer than engagement range. Then their only recourse to get closer is 'Advance Firing', just like the AI does, realistically.

All this banter about 'Integrity of Play' is useless, if some players have the means to gamey, many will. I say eliminate the means, and enjoy good competitive play, without the need for bumping off or the banishment of undisciplined participants. Usually these individuals are just lousy players, and need an edge to compete...and they'll take it when given the chance.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Southern Steel wrote:

Would there be a way to add a feature where someone could be a ref?

Just add a commander without anyone to command to the OOB. He could fly around the battlefield and keep an eye on things.

Banning the unreconstructed is the simplest solution. But if the MP group is reluctant to do that, then try another solution such as; no replacements awarded for 1 week to a player that uses non-historic tactics. Non-historic play would be decided by a majority vote of the other players in the game, or an umpire. Then you'd have at least a week of sane play.

[RDBoles]

So what exactly are the tactics that are used that frustrates so many players? And why can't these tactics be countered moved upon?

[DavidAcheson140PVI]

So what exactly are the tactics that are used that frustrates so many players? And why can't these tactics be countered moved upon?

The tactics are when someone TC's a regiment and column charges them at artillery or infantry. Its a little difficult to counter someone charging at you in my experience.

[RDBoles]

Wow I have been playing that way on sandbox single player all the time. To counter that if the AI ever did that to me.
one- I always keep at least one regiment by my cannons some times more if I see that they , the other guys, are over loading to that side.
two- I always try to keep other regiments not to far back from the line of action. When you key in double line the rear regiments are pretty far back as scripted. I move them up half way. Also when possable I rotate a fresh regiment up to the line and draw back the active one to recoup.
three- Seal is only doing what a good commander would. He looks to what he can do to win. The rebs give a yell when they charge. Why? One it is an adrenilan rush ,two it strikes fear into those they want to kill. How do you think the Brits felt when we didn't stand up in a well straight line, during the revolutionary war. Didn't Upton come up with a plan that was unorthodox at Spotsylvania? How long did the union cav leaders take to counter JEB Stuart's unorthodox tactics? Why didn't the repeating rifle come to be used sooner? How did Gen Wilder use his force's with the repeating rifles? If you can delete the column charge in the script or mod do it. Inovation is the key to winning. IMHO