Suggestion from the MP community

[SouthernSteel]

Alright, wow, that's about 5 times it hasn't let me post now...


I don't think it's necessarily simply about profitability. It seems, from a very simple and logical standpoint, that profit gain/loss ought to be the main sticking point. However, from what Norb is saying, they have a plan and a structure for everything which, while it likely takes that into account, is guided instead more by vision; ie: they see where things are and have a good idea of where they want things to go, and have devised a plan to achieve that. In the end I suppose it might most easily be summarized in terms of cost/benefit, but measured in terms of satisfaction and sanity for the team (and the communi9ty too) as opposed to simply $.

The community is taken into account in that process as much as possible, but resources are limited; that's something I'm sure everyone here is familiar with. I personally would like to help the team out more if I were able, but my time and energy (and knowledge) really just aren't conducive to that. Now, I feel like I am somewhat more able to step back at this point and try and see other perspectives - I have offered my share of criticism, no doubt, but now that my time to invest in playing has been scaled back a good bit, perhaps my need for new maps, etc. is less pressing than it is for some. I feel that the random map generator is/was a huge breakthrough and adds a great deal of replayability, one that ought, in my opinoon, to keep us satisfied for a while.

That all being said, there just needs to be (and I mean literally there is just going to have to be acceptance at some level) an understanding of all the factors involved, which I believe Norb has done well in explaining. With their current setup, there just aren't any additional resources (primarily time) to devote to working on and unlocking everything to be modded. We just have to understand that those resources are being applied elsewhere in accordance with NSD's assessment of and plan for things moving forward.

Would I like to see that mod-ability unlocked at some point? Absolutely. We have all see what sort of life and longevity that has given to TC2M. But for now, we're just going to have to content ourselves with the mods we have (which are quite good and have, well, given this game and community much of the life and longevity it currently enjoys) and be patient going forward. We know that the NSD team is always open to listening to us and will always take our wants/needs/ideas into consideration when deciding how to steer or tweak their plan.

Edit: JC, I don't think that trying to boil this down into basic sentiments will prove to be useful at this point. It certainly doesn't lend itself to discussion or greater understanding, and is more likely to breed resentment and sharp retorts, neither of which we, as a group, need (that goes for the retorters as well). What is needed most here is for everyone to try and step back and see what the other people have to work with and/or are dealing with. In doing that, hopefully, we can all start to see that improvements will come with time, and that we all want what's best for NSD and the game in the end, even though we might have operational differences in perspective for the time being.

[Garnier]

Parker, I'd mostly agree with your post if I thought "unlocking" the maps would take a lot of effort from NSD.

I purposely don't ask for things that would take a lot of effort. The maps can be modded as they are now, it's just there's a check to crash the game it if it detects a modded map. That's what I'm suggesting be removed, as said in the original post.

[norb]

People just do not seem to GET IT from the NSD side. Damn us for giving all of you just a great game......that's apparently not enough.......It seems it's always about everyone else and damn the Company/Developers/Team.

That's a big load of hogwash there. Most of us do whatever we can to support NSD. Asking for the ability to make/mod maps is not damning NSD. Garnier is trying to make the argument that it would be good for NSD to unlock map making tools.

Seems to me you, sir, are the one not getting it.

If map modding is bad for business then GCM is bad for business, particularly the new random maps that are played most of the time. So I should quit it.

That's what I'm asking.

I disagree. I see a threat, not a request. I see something that can really destroy an indie team. It's when someone that contributes a lot starts feeling like they should be able to make decisions. They try to impose their will on the direction of the game. There is a big difference between that and just making a request. Sometimes it reaches the point where they get so mad that they don't get their own way that they start trying to move the community against the team. I've seen it happen many times. Some people just cannot take no for an answer.

In reading this I see one person that is passionate about it enough to start making threats. I see others that support our right to make the decision for ourselves.

I can only offer some advice. Step back. If you are at the point where you feel it's your right to determine the direction of the game, just step back. You have done great work, but it's not worth seeing you destroy it with this. You are getting in too deep.

I always suggest that if people want to determine the absolute direction of a game, write their own. It's the only sure fired way to get to make all decisions. Then you can at least take a look from the other perspective of knowing the thousands of hours you put in to get here and then having someone else try to tell you what to do.

[SouthernSteel]

as said in the original post.

Read the OP? Preposterous!

And soldier, whatchu want, a hug or somethin?

Group hug? Guys?

[Garnier]

I'm sorry, I don't mean anything as a threat. I use that example to make a point about whether modding is beneficial. It would be foolish for me to ditch anything.

You are right, one only has absolute control over what they make.

I will still try to persuade those who make decisions, make a clear argument and keep a cool head. If it doesn't influence the team, life goes on; but I think we'd be worse off in general if no one ever questioned decisions.

[NY Cavalry]

I don't like where this thread is going. Especially with Parker moving to San Francisco and all.


I thank the developers for bringing us this game and with the continual support they provide.

I thank Garnier for his work done to help mp play.

[KG_Soldier]

as said in the original post.

Read the OP? Preposterous!

And soldier, whatchu want, a hug or somethin?

Group hug? Guys?

A hug would be nice, but really, I'm simply trying to cheer you up.

[IronBMike]

This is ironbmike checking in after a long absence. I just started working, moved into a new place, life is a whirlwind! And my computer is broken and in the repair shop so I'm on an old comp. That's why you never see me around here. I can't wait to get my comp back and start playing again.

Anyways, the game needs user created maps for MP. It would be a HUGE boost to the community; TC2M was perfect for me because of the multitude of maps and creations for it. Applied to MP is just :woohoo:

[X Navy Seal]

Well there certainly has been some drama on the forum this week - lol - although I think Baldwin's thread is still the winner. Spoom should be back tomorrow so maybe he will succeed in calming everyone down.


Ps. I really like Shaka's avatar :laugh:

[norb]

I'm sorry, I don't mean anything as a threat. I use that example to make a point about whether modding is beneficial. It would be foolish for me to ditch anything.

You are right, one only has absolute control over what they make.

I will still try to persuade those who make decisions, make a clear argument and keep a cool head. If it doesn't influence the team, life goes on; but I think we'd be worse off in general if no one ever questioned decisions.

I am very glad to hear that because you are an asset to this community. My mistake.