GCM Multiplayer Maps

[KG_Soldier]

When is NSD going to allow Garnier to make maps or at least edit existing maps' heights, roads, fences, and such?

The MP community is doing really well, and we do appreciate the new maps being released, but so far, the new maps are more historic in nature and not terribly big MP game friendly.

I have high hopes for Davinci's soon coming Alpine variants (more on this later).

But what the MP community really needs to facilitate growth is an unlimited supply of MP maps. Not historic maps, we'll leave that to NSD. And 99% of the players who play the GCM have Pipe Creek and Antietam and can be counted on to support NSD with purchases of all the historic add-ons you guys want to make.

Often we start talking about a real carryover campaign, and we could do great things and attract many more players if we could run multiple carryover campaigns where battles are fought on new maps almost every battle. The possibilities are endless and every one of them would benefit NSD.

All that is holding us back is Garnier not being able to mod maps.

Please understand that I'm only advocating what I think best for the MP community. And I honestly don't believe letting Garnier mod maps will cost NSD a dime; doing so will in fact benefit NSD, in my opinion.

[Saddletank]

I would imagine that a system that lets some kind of map be generated on the fly by the game or an openly buildable map editor would want to retained by NSD as it could be a key part of any future campaign system they would release. If the playing community already can build any map it wants and with a person like Garnier able to do most of the rest of the work to create a campaign system, that would rather kill NSDs market.

[KG_Soldier]

How so?

I mean. . . you can't play without the game.

People will always want historic maps for single player; that's NSD's market.

NSD has never even mentioned working on or even thinking about any kind of MP campaign system. Of course you may be privy to information on that subject that I'm not.

Several people are allowed to make maps now; they must get Norb's blessing so there is no conflict with future NSD add-ons. I'm quite confident Garnier would abide by any restrictions NSD asked for.

A random map generator for the GCM would only help bring new players to SOWGB.

We are not asking for an "openly buildable map editor." I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from my post. We are only asking NSD to grant the same map editing privileges to Garnier that they have recently given a few others.

[norb]

I know that it seems easy on the outset. Just open the maps, but there are a lot of implications under the hood that are not obvious. For example, people wanted to send MP couriers and free text messages. Not included in the original game, nor really part of the design. But we threw it in for the community because they requested it. Now we are spending tons of hours trying to figure out what's going on. So although something might seem simple to you, might even seem simple to us, there is nothing simple in this existing game. Certain features need to be designed from the outset. So many times we have enabled a small feature only to have the implications cascade. Although we do enjoy adding new features, please understand this is not a subscription service, we get no monthly fees to keep improving the game. So our main focus must be on adding expansions, map packs. We do want to keep making the game better and will continue to do so, but our time gets too bogged down in adding patch features and we need to focus on major revisions and expansions.

[NY Cavalry]

We all want a viable company. I can only speak for myself, but I am willing to buy a map pack if it was designed with MP in mind.

[KG_Soldier]

I understand your concerns, Norb. But there have been almost no GCM issues which you've had to step in and try to figure out what's wrong. I remember one where Garnier had read something wrong and you helped him out.

But we who play the GCM understand (well, most of us) that NSD is not responsible for non-NSD mods working. Fortunately, Garnier has been able to figure out how to keep his mods playable (at least so far).

And I'm not asking to open map modding to everyone, just Garnier. He mods the maps already, as much as he can, anyway. But we're still playing literally hundreds of games a month on the same base maps.

Perhaps a stipulation that we won't ask for help if things go awry?

I understand it's not a subscription service. You have gone above and beyond to help get MP as stable as it is now, and I really appreciate the effort.

I know this is asking a lot, but how about a trial run or something. If we cause you too much time spent working on our mess, you stop the trial; we don't complain.

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to be upset or mad if you choose not to let Garnier mod maps. I will always support NSD as best I can.

But I would like for you to consider it for a while.

Thanks.

[norb]

Allowing people to mod maps would not solve the problems. It would require a complete redesign of how we load and make our maps. Then entire system would have to change. I appreciate that people mod the game, but we cannot as a company change the program just because people have a great idea. If I go up to Call of Duty and say I've written this great map randomizer and it almost works, but if you would just change a few things I could get it to work completely, I don't think I would have much success. I have looked into it and it requires too much core design change to get to work. That's why we have allowed map modders, to create more maps, but they cannot be randomly created. Too much of the system would have to change to support it.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

By my count there are 15 maps on which to play. I've fought literally hundreds battles on a single map and I still enjoy it today as much as when it was new and fresh. If a player only looks for that one magic spot where the defender or attacker has maximum chances, then I can see how the game would become stale quickly. But if the player approaches the terrain as a 19th century general would and try to utilize even the tiniest of advantages, then the maps provide endless possibilities.

Given that the map packs are currently Norb's prime method of generating new revenue, I fully support his decision to keep the map making proprietary. The last thing any of us want to do is discourage him from continuing to improve this remarkable game.

[KG_Soldier]

By my count there are 15 maps on which to play. I've fought literally hundreds battles on a single map and I still enjoy it today as much as when it was new and fresh. If a player only looks for that one magic spot where the defender or attacker has maximum chances, then I can see how the game would become stale quickly. But if the player approaches the terrain as a 19th century general would and try to utilize even the tiniest of advantages, then the maps provide endless possibilities.

Given that the map packs are currently Norb's prime method of generating new revenue, I fully support his decision to keep the map making proprietary. The last thing any of us want to do is discourage him from continuing to improve this remarkable game.

MTG, I'm glad to hear you still enjoy playing as much as ever, even on the same maps hundreds of times. But single player games are a little different than 10-20 player MP battles. You should come play with us some time.

Almost every person who plays in the GCM owns both Pipe Creek and Antietam, so the argument that allowing Garnier to mod/make maps for the GCM would cost NSD money through lost map pack sales doesn't hold water.

[KG_Soldier]

Allowing people to mod maps would not solve the problems. It would require a complete redesign of how we load and make our maps. Then entire system would have to change. I appreciate that people mod the game, but we cannot as a company change the program just because people have a great idea. If I go up to Call of Duty and say I've written this great map randomizer and it almost works, but if you would just change a few things I could get it to work completely, I don't think I would have much success. I have looked into it and it requires too much core design change to get to work. That's why we have allowed map modders, to create more maps, but they cannot be randomly created. Too much of the system would have to change to support it.

Okay. . . no random map generator is possible, and no modding because of all the extra work it would require from NSD. Understood. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be being hounded by someone seemingly every day. Right now it's the hits/couriers guys. And when you guys get that worked out, it will be something and probably someone different needing or wanting you to change or fix something.

So how about giving Garnier the same or close to the same privileges Davinci and the other map making modders have so he can make new maps for the GCM only?