Apologies to all. I must have been drunk when I last posted.
Should be of course the "blue ham in the grey sandwich".
Happens to us all when we get old.
Geoff Laver Late of Her Britannic Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot
The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
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Ingles of the 57th
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Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
"Die hard, my men. Die hard the 57th."
Last words of Col Ingles commanding His Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot at Albuhera 1811
Marshal Beresford wrote in his despatch "Our dead, particularly the 57th Regiment,were lying as they fought in the ranks, every wound in front"
Last words of Col Ingles commanding His Majesty's 57th Regiment of Foot at Albuhera 1811
Marshal Beresford wrote in his despatch "Our dead, particularly the 57th Regiment,were lying as they fought in the ranks, every wound in front"
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Saddletank
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Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
THat sounds like something lurking in the back of my fridge.Should be of course the "blue ham in the grey sandwich".
On other news the 13th Pennsylvania Bucktails under my command last night racked up a score of 800. They fought like demons, capturing one Rebel regiment and driving away 2 more. Losses were 65 killed and wounded and over 600 enemy. They got through over 70 rounds per man.
HITS & Couriers - a different and realistic way to play SoW MP.
Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
"The 24th Michigan never performed as well as the rest of the brigade (it was the first one to break at Gettysburg while combating Pettigrew)"
I am not sure what books you have been reading regarding Gettysburg but you are badly mistaken with your comment regarding the 24th Michigan.
On McPherson Ridge the 24th had the 19 Indiana on their left flank (which was the far left of the brigade)
The 19th was being outflanked on their left and fought valently but were :huh: forced to fall back exposing the left flank of the 24th to a crossfire from their flank and front. Only then were they forced to fall back as did the rest of the brigade shortly after.
As was written in a Public Journal: "It was to the Iron Brigade more then any other that nation owes its salvation at Gettysburg, and we say not more then history will verify, that of all the heroic regiments which fought there the, Twenty-fourth Michigan stands preeminent for its devotion and valor"
That does not sound like a regiment that did not perform well at Gettysburg and they certainly were not the first regiment to fall back as you stated, check it out. The fact that they lost over 80% of the regiment at Gettysburg to me implies they were subjected to as much if not more then the other regiments in the brigade.
I am not sure what books you have been reading regarding Gettysburg but you are badly mistaken with your comment regarding the 24th Michigan.
On McPherson Ridge the 24th had the 19 Indiana on their left flank (which was the far left of the brigade)
The 19th was being outflanked on their left and fought valently but were :huh: forced to fall back exposing the left flank of the 24th to a crossfire from their flank and front. Only then were they forced to fall back as did the rest of the brigade shortly after.
As was written in a Public Journal: "It was to the Iron Brigade more then any other that nation owes its salvation at Gettysburg, and we say not more then history will verify, that of all the heroic regiments which fought there the, Twenty-fourth Michigan stands preeminent for its devotion and valor"
That does not sound like a regiment that did not perform well at Gettysburg and they certainly were not the first regiment to fall back as you stated, check it out. The fact that they lost over 80% of the regiment at Gettysburg to me implies they were subjected to as much if not more then the other regiments in the brigade.
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Jack ONeill
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Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
All,
As an aside, the confederates had a much better system of replacements for their units then the Federals did. The Northern states raised some new regiments for one specific reason - political patronage. By raising a new Regiment, the Governor could bestow the Colonelship, (and various other commissions) on some political favorite(s), thus insuring thier returning the favor at election time, (assuming they survived). Wisconsin was on of the few states which actively tried to reinforce its existing units in the field.
A prime example is Solomon Meredith of the 24th. Michigan. It was sent to join the Iron Brigade, just before Fredericksburg, I think. Meredith had zip-all experience as a soldier, but was a current favorite of the Michigan Governor. By all accounts, he was NOT a fabulous commander. The unit did well in spite of him.
Another annoying side effect of this was the new, green, Colonel sometimes outranked the more experienced but lower ranking, surviving, officers of the existing regiments the new unit was joining.
Brilliant, eh?
Jack B)
As an aside, the confederates had a much better system of replacements for their units then the Federals did. The Northern states raised some new regiments for one specific reason - political patronage. By raising a new Regiment, the Governor could bestow the Colonelship, (and various other commissions) on some political favorite(s), thus insuring thier returning the favor at election time, (assuming they survived). Wisconsin was on of the few states which actively tried to reinforce its existing units in the field.
A prime example is Solomon Meredith of the 24th. Michigan. It was sent to join the Iron Brigade, just before Fredericksburg, I think. Meredith had zip-all experience as a soldier, but was a current favorite of the Michigan Governor. By all accounts, he was NOT a fabulous commander. The unit did well in spite of him.
Another annoying side effect of this was the new, green, Colonel sometimes outranked the more experienced but lower ranking, surviving, officers of the existing regiments the new unit was joining.
Brilliant, eh?
Jack B)
Last edited by Jack ONeill on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
American by birth, Californian by geography, Southerner by the Grace of God.
"Molon Labe"
"Molon Labe"
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Michigander
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Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
Meridith was with the 19th Indiana. The Colonel of the 24th Michigan was Henry Morrow. A brilliant officer.
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Hancock the Superb
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Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
RVC: After rechecking, I do find my memory faulty. You are correct, the 19th Indiana was on the flank in Herbst Woods at midday, not the 24th. However, I believe that both regiments fell back when the 151st moved up to their flank, since they thought it was their support. Unfortunately, the 151st was decimated by this lack of support, and so were the Wisconsin regiments."The 24th Michigan never performed as well as the rest of the brigade (it was the first one to break at Gettysburg while combating Pettigrew)"
I am not sure what books you have been reading regarding Gettysburg but you are badly mistaken with your comment regarding the 24th Michigan.
On McPherson Ridge the 24th had the 19 Indiana on their left flank (which was the far left of the brigade)
The 19th was being outflanked on their left and fought valently but were :huh: forced to fall back exposing the left flank of the 24th to a crossfire from their flank and front. Only then were they forced to fall back as did the rest of the brigade shortly after.
As was written in a Public Journal: "It was to the Iron Brigade more then any other that nation owes its salvation at Gettysburg, and we say not more then history will verify, that of all the heroic regiments which fought there the, Twenty-fourth Michigan stands preeminent for its devotion and valor"
That does not sound like a regiment that did not perform well at Gettysburg and they certainly were not the first regiment to fall back as you stated, check it out. The fact that they lost over 80% of the regiment at Gettysburg to me implies they were subjected to as much if not more then the other regiments in the brigade.
Hancock the Superb
Re: The Fifth Infantry Regiment of New York Volunteers
In fact the 151st Pa under Col. Biddle of Rowley’s Brigade was sent to fill an open space between the 19th Indiana left flank and the Hagerstown Rd, if you want to say they were in support fine but they were actually sent there to protect the left flank of the Union line and were positioned to the left and somewhat to the rear of the 19th Indiana. They were subsequently outflanked on their left by regiments of Pettigrew. They were forced to fall back exposing the left flank of the 19th Indiana then the 24th Michigan, then the 7th Wisconsin and finally the 2nd Wisconsin who were facing the Chambersburg Pike. The 6th Wisconsin was in support at the railroad cut but fell back as the brigade did. Again the reason the Iron Brigade was forced to fall back was that they were being outflanked from the left and from the front as I had mentioned before. No regiment or brigade can stand up to being outflanked as the Iron Brigade was, it was not a matter of not performing well by any regiment much less the 24th Michigan as I had stated. Again, look it up. Incidentally, obviously I am from Michigan (Dearborn Heights) or was I moved to California 11 years ago but I had visited Gettysburg four times and paid special attention to the positions of the Iron Brigade on that first day, God I love that place. Appreciate your comments though although I don’t agree with them as you can see.