Supply Wagon's

[ironsight]

Well lets see now General Marlow, by my count we're up to 4 yes's for an additional food-type wagon if we include estabu's 'good idea' comments. B)
So far no no's! :silly:

I'll not hold my breath though!:laugh:
___________________________________

All of a sudden i'm reminded of just how important food was to a soldier and also to the homefront especially the Confederacy towards the end of the war.

As i recall, it was Gen. Hood's guys at Antietam who while preparing to have their first hot meal in days were urgently ordered into the cornfield grudgingly & PO'd many of whom stayed in that cornfield never to return for that meal.

Or how about Napoleon's disasterous retreat from Russia! His starving frozen troops were in no condition to put up any kind of serious counter attack.

And sorta related, i'm reminded of that goofy CW game i bought a couple years ago 'Divided Nation' or something like that. I was in the middle of driving the enemy back to where they came from when all of a sudden the words 'The battle is lost' or something to that effect flashed on the screen. Why? Because of a famine at the homefront diverted supplies or something? What?

Yep!....food, sustenance, supplies, tents, blankets, etc. ....an Army really does travel and fight best with its stomach satisfied.

[ironsight]

hoistingman Wrote:How about calvary setting IUDs for wagons,

Did you mean IEDs? :huh: :ohmy:
IUDs far as i know are something women use to keep from having babies!

Unless you got a better explanation? :huh:

[BOSTON]

You Prick, you got me on that one (IED), regardless, calvary did do alot to disrupt supplies other rear area mischief whenever possible. I had success with TC2M In calvary raid mode, but had to keep an eye those units for after a raid (wagon) they seem to want to run off to (God knows where). I realize that Pioneers would most likely be the ones to be setting demolitions or booby traps, in some way to disrupt troop movements, just thinking along the line that the calvary could pick up that duty in this game, if any thought was being givin on the subject.

[dale]

From my foggy knowledge, the use of land mines was not widespread among engineering units. Around the Richmond defences there was one Confederate officer who championed land mines. (I actually saw a reenactor portray that officer at Ft. Drewry. As I recall the mines looked like soup cans.) Many officers despised mines (torpedoes) and thought it was beneath their standard to use them.

When mines slowed Sherman in his March to the Sea he marched captured militia in front of his units. After that the mining of the road ceased.

[ironsight]

hoistingman Wrote:You Prick, you got me on that one (IED)...

Hey man, easy mistake to make,:laugh: IEDs and IUDs are so much alike, they're easily confused!!:laugh:

But all is not lost. A dud IED could be called an IUD, Improvised Unexploded Device.

Thanks for the good laugh... deserves a K-bump

[ironsight]

hoistingman Wrote: I had success with TC2M In calvary raid mode, but had to keep an eye those units for after a raid (wagon) they seem to want to run off to (God knows where).

Are you using the 'go after easy target' command to capture wagons? If so, that command needs to be disabled immediately after the wagon is captured or else that cavalry unit will go after the next easy target even if its on the other side of the map. It also helps to keep the cavalry commander galloping along with his cavalry unit if and when they retreat after the capture.

This reminds me of another slightly related aggravation. When a unit retreats with a tolerable-recoverable morale, sometimes they'll run right straight into enemy territory to then be routed when surprised by the enemy hordes. Lost two infantry units that way the last battle.

____________________________________________

dale Wrote:When mines slowed Sherman in his March to the Sea he marched captured militia in front of his units. After that the mining of the road ceased.

One of many war crimes committed or permitted by Sherman in his new founded 'total war'. I have no doubt, if Sherman was captured, he would of been hanged or shot as a war criminal after a quick trial of course.

[BOSTON]

It would be Cool to see a wagon blow up. Or what a mine would do to any fighting unit/leader and how it would affect movement/game play.

[ironsight]

For sure there'd be no more ordnance (or supplies) for that unfortunate Division. I'd also think the gigantic-loud-'flying firey pieces of it strewn about' explosion would have a traumatic negative affect on morale.
It would have to degrade the unfortunate Division's overall morale a notch down while at the same time maybe boosting the morale of the exploders.

Don't know if a Division's morale is affected by its wagon capture in TC2M. I usually save my cavalry for capturing batteries with wagon capture more or less at the winding down of a battle during mop up unless one irresistably wanders nearby. That would probably change if exploding ordnance wagons became a reality.

I think adding exploding wagon capability to the game would not only make it more interesting but it would be a highly valued target like going after royalty in a chess game if for no other reason, just to see the fireworks.
Far as i know, no other CW game has a targetable potentially exploding wagon feature or artillery for that matter. It'd be another first which would make the game a little more richer and more fun to play.

Now for exploding a futuristic food wagon, well i envision a whole bunch of fried singed smoking hard tack lying about the field. Maybe this would increase morale?:)

[dale]

For what it is worth, you had a 100% better chance of seeing an ambulance wagon nearer the battlefield than a food wagon. Troops marched with one, two or three day rations and if they were expecting particularly hard fighting they would cook all their rations at one time. Food wagons would more than likely be in a large group transiting from the nearest supply depot (rail head or port) to the expected bivouac of the division. I have not heard of cases where the ammo wagons were close enough to the fighting to be blown up, artillery caisons would be the most likely to be destroyed by shelling.

This might be for campaign style scenarios in the distant future but what I think would be really neat would be for units to upgrade their weapons if they routed an enemy unit that had a superior weapon. When the Union army started to arm more units with the 7 shot repeater any that were captured were immediately put to use by the Confederates with the calvary getting first priority. Confederate artillery units were anxious to trade up from the 1841 model cannons. This one aspect puts a little RPS into the game, which we know is a "gotcha" feature for gamers.

[ironsight]

dale, you're right! But the big however is that wagons in TC2M while they 'tend' to stay near and behind their Division thats not always the case. I've captured a number of wagons clearly in my occupied territory. Don't know if we'll see the wandering wagon syndrome in the new game but if they do and Norb surprises us by equipping em with halos, and better yet manual cannon targeting, then let the fun begin. :woohoo:

I also agree caisons would be more likey to be blown up from enemy fire and did as artillery was a favorite target.
By the way exploding caisons were on my and many other wish lists also.

Whether an ordnance wagon ever went up due to enemy fire i can't say as i also don't recall reading anything to that effect. But i'll bet it happend. Gonna have to do some research when i get time.

I've read some accounts where cavalry surprised and captured an enemy wagon train and not being able to hold it or due to logistics couldn't transport all the goodies back to their lines so they set fire to the remaining wagons. It'd be hard to imagine some of the wagons didn't carry ordnance and blew up. Maybe another option in the game would be to instead of capturing, set fire to it!

I also seem to remember reading somewhere that during Lee's retreat from Gburg that his train was continually harassed and/or attacked from aggressive Yankee cavalry.
Further, a lot of the wagons got stuck or had difficult going in the mud which added to Lee's transport problems. Offhand i don't know how many of them got captured or destroyed by direct enemy action if any.
Since the North already had adequate provisions, i could easily see why their cavalry would concentrate on pursuit and harassment rather than capturing Lee's wagons and then the hassle of returning em back to Gburg. The logical thing would of been to destroy them. Don't know for sure, maybe they retrieved em later.

Lee's retreat from Gburg is an interesting story all unto itself and it'd be great to see a scenario developed around it. Lots of rear guard action, wagons, some artillery and cavalry action with the drama of whether he could make it back to Virginia intact with what remained of his Army.