Waterloo AI Questions

[mitra76]

SOrry to play the devil advocate role, but this is not possible: officers and units can check the ground 360 grades around themself, not around a distant location. But also if it was possible, nothing tell you on what side of your division you're, central,right,left you have not a fixed center of division, so you cannot know in what direction make the checks, nor in what is the angle of your commander is looking respect this imaginary front line: because you can check angle respect objects or coordinates, but you have not fixed coordinates to check because the line is not a real object and the enemy units can give you many different angles.

In addition you division dimensions can change according to the formation and sprites ratio and a straight line is a hypotetical form, it can be very irregular have a L form or the enemy could simply have denied one of his flanks and the gap being simply a open space.

Sorry to be pedantic, to experiment with the AI are very fun, but for my experience is better discover before what you cannot do than what you want do, it avoided a lot of headaches. Change a lot of code only to discover it makes the game crash or generate desync in multiplayer is very frustrating.

[Saddletank]

Units have a concept of front and flank though - this is accounted in the casualties shooting from behind the flank. And brigades have a concept of front don't they, since you can issue an order to "attack the enemy to your front" and the AI brigade then heads towards the enemy and not in some random direction chosen from 360 degrees of possibility.

[mitra76]

Units have a concept of front and flank though - this is accounted in the casualties shooting from behind the flank. And brigades have a concept of front don't they, since you can issue an order to "attack the enemy to your front" and the AI brigade then heads towards the enemy and not in some random direction chosen from 360 degrees of possibility.

all the move orders use the direction given from the orientation of brigade commander (or aim to a fixed object destination (map,friend,enemy) or to a point far x yards from the officers.

The brigade AI can wheel totally in the direction of nearest enemy, if this last one is out of fighting range and there're the correct condition to do it.

Brigade works well because after a stance is triggered, if the conditions of stance level, enemy distance and strenght permit it, the brigade move the engage the nearest enemy alone.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

I was initially surprised that there is no concept of a line in SOW. But thinking about it for a little bit, that explains why the AI does not have any concept of maintaining a coherent brigade formation or maintaining a defensive line. It's disappointing to hear this has not changed. These principles are especially important in Napoleonic warfare.

Computers can easily calculate a line. Since the AI knows the x,y coordinates of the enemy flags, it can perform a least square fit of that data. The result is the enemy battle line. It can do the same for its own units. The beauty of this is that it can be used for brigade, division or corps sized units. Any sector of the battlefield can be calculated.

Until the AI learns how to do this, it will be impossible to teach it any tactical principles. It will always just be individual battalions fighting each other without regard to anything else.

[Saddletank]

My understanding is this version of the game has better brigade integrity and linearity worked in. A brigade performs more as a brigade and less like 4, 5 or 6 separate battalions. I also heard somewhere that the extreme wheeling in the middle of a line to face the best target has been suppressed, possibly just by implementing a wider cone of fire. But not having a unit in the midst of your line suddenly wheel 60 or 80 degrees right will be a big step forwards in appearance.

[mitra76]

I was initially surprised that there is no concept of a line in SOW. But thinking about it for a little bit, that explains why the AI does not have any concept of maintaining a coherent brigade formation or maintaining a defensive line. It's disappointing to hear this has not changed. These principles are especially important in Napoleonic warfare.

Computers can easily calculate a line. Since the AI knows the x,y coordinates of the enemy flags, it can perform a least square fit of that data. The result is the enemy battle line. It can do the same for its own units. The beauty of this is that it can be used for brigade, division or corps sized units. Any sector of the battlefield can be calculated.

Until the AI learns how to do this, it will be impossible to teach it any tactical principles. It will always just be individual battalions fighting each other without regard to anything else.

Sorry but this seems to be a little too simplified at least on the basis of how the game works:

- or you divide the map in predefined fixed area of the same dimension and you check them assuming (because the AI see with the FOW) there's not enemy or friend already inside, but of course this generate obvious problems of how determine if the area is relevant for the battlefield or if the ground is good to move or to define priorities for this area between your free units

- or you transform brigade, division, corps in static object where the battalions have fixed and static positions and their AI disable until not detached, because drawing a fixed line or a square on the basis of something which can move continuosly (flags) in different direction on the basis of battle flow is impossible, the simple presence of the skirmishers force to make exceptions. Of course if all the components are fixed, potentially you can assume the space occupied from you and the other, but your gameplay is rigid. I saw this in Histwar and the effect is far from good in term of interaction, I can only suppose how bad could be in a real 3d like Scourge.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

Sectors are exactly what are missing in the game. All battles are organized such that divisions are responsible for certain parts of a corps' battlefield. Brigades are responsible for certain parts of the division's battlefield. The divisions coordinate between each other to attack or defend, but within their own sectors. Brigades do the same. It's done to avoid a disorganized effort.

SOW doesn't do this. What we see are divisions and brigades overlapping each other. Battalions spend a huge amount of time trying to find a path to the front line. To use an English expression, it's a Chinese fire drill. How does the new game differ from this?

[mitra76]

Sectors are a thing, subdivision of map like a ideal hex boargame map with stack rule in zones is another: sectors are temporary and mission related, they are not exclusive of other units during the movements, they are used from army to assign quadrants to the corps and from the corps to assign tactical objectives to the divisions (when the tactics is one of quad types). This remained the same and will be object of revision in the patches; what is improved is the "play" of divisions, now are more coherent with the space and relative positions occupied at the moment of contact.

[AP514]

Good points from you both.....But it looks like Multiplay is going to be the way to go for a bit until the CORP and Army AI is patched...

From what im hearing a INF Division will not cordinate with another CAV BRG/Division with in the CORP.

*Example an INF division has the enemy division on the Ropes and your Friendly Cav Brig/Division will not ride in and Break them or at least move up to force square.(unless for some reason/dumbluck the cav decides it is also a good target)


P.S. I am still buying/supporting

[Davinci]

mitra76 - I might have missed this question, so here goes!

I was under the impression that this game allowed the user to alter the AI code, so how is this possible.

Does it require editing the csv files, or is this controlled by having knowledge of C++ programming skills?

An in-depth answer would be highly appreciated!

Thanks,

davinci