How does the cavalry system work?

Let's talk about the issues in converting the SOW engine to handle Waterloo. Ideas, suggestions, feature requests, comments.
Pansarskott
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Pansarskott »

Well...there's your answer...Cuirassiers wore a cuirass and helmet witch gave them better protection then hussars or other light cavalry...
That is why during the skills calculation for the OOB creation we considered the armour yes or no like a factor in the edge weapon skill determination.
Aha..I see. This game sounds more awsome by the day.

When I got you here mitra76, How are the speeds of cavalry when they walk or run? In SowG, I was a bit disapointed when the charge speed of cavalry was slower than its run speed. I even saw infantry running faster than the cavalry was charging.
Last edited by Pansarskott on Thu May 28, 2015 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gunfreak
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Gunfreak »

Wargames rules that give a disadvantage to, say, hussars against cuirassiers in melee are not correct in my view.
Well...there's your answer...Cuirassiers wore a cuirass and helmet witch gave them better protection then hussars or other light cavalry...
Not really. Armor was 90% show. 1 on 1 personal skill maters. On squadron level training and command maters.

Armor has nothing to do with it. Some heavy cav get bonuses because of bigger horses. Only a few take armor into account.
Gunfreak
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Gunfreak »

Wargames rules that give a disadvantage to, say, hussars against cuirassiers in melee are not correct in my view.
Well...there's your answer...Cuirassiers wore a cuirass and helmet witch gave them better protection then hussars or other light cavalry...
Pansarskott
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Pansarskott »

Wargames rules that give a disadvantage to, say, hussars against cuirassiers in melee are not correct in my view.
Well...there's your answer...Cuirassiers wore a cuirass and helmet witch gave them better protection then hussars or other light cavalry...
Not really. Armor was 90% show. 1 on 1 personal skill maters. On squadron level training and command maters.

Armor has nothing to do with it. Some heavy cav get bonuses because of bigger horses. Only a few take armor into account.
No...There are loads with eyewitness acounts that fighting against french cuirassiers was terrifying becuse of their protection of the breastlates and helmets made a big part of their bodys invulnerable to sword cuts.
One Englishmen i the lifeguards at Waterloo, said that "we lost many men to the french cuirasses protection and longer reach of their swords."
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Little Powell
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Little Powell »

I sure don't like to mess with Cuirassiers.. If I see them coming, I'm turning the other way unless I severely outnumber them.. :)
Last edited by Little Powell on Thu May 28, 2015 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jack ONeill
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Jack ONeill »

Another notable example of Armor in play was at, (I believe), Abensburg in 1809. The Austrian Reserve Cuirassiers were brought forward to cover the withdrawl of the very worn-out Austrian Foot. They were engaged by St. Sulpices' advancing French Cuirassiers. It was a fierce battle, made more difficult for the Austrians, as they only wore the front breastplate and the French wore both back and breast plates. When the Austrians were finally forced to retreat, many were cut down from behind due to their unarmored backs. Sucked to be them.

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mitra76
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by mitra76 »

When I got you here mitra76, How are the speeds of cavalry when they walk or run? In SowG, I was a bit disapointed when the charge speed of cavalry was slower than its run speed. I even saw infantry running faster than the cavalry was charging.
Speeds values are controlled in unitglobal.csv, respect gettysburg has been introduced a middle speed which is triggered automatically when near the enemy, if not already in run. Charge state speed is randomic in the hadcoded code ,it means every sprite has own proper speed calculated as random value calculated between

(the march speed + ( (run speed - march speed) ) / 2) and the run speed

This for create the effect of charge en fouraggeur and break of formation. Of course this generate when it seems a slower speed (also if the more rapid sprites use the run speed), that is why I tried to order charge for the AI only in the last yards.
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Gunfreak
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Gunfreak »

Well...there's your answer...Cuirassiers wore a cuirass and helmet witch gave them better protection then hussars or other light cavalry...
Not really. Armor was 90% show. 1 on 1 personal skill maters. On squadron level training and command maters.

Armor has nothing to do with it. Some heavy cav get bonuses because of bigger horses. Only a few take armor into account.
No...There are loads with eyewitness acounts that fighting against french cuirassiers was terrifying becuse of their protection of the breastlates and helmets made a big part of their bodys invulnerable to sword cuts.
One Englishmen i the lifeguards at Waterloo, said that "we lost many men to the french cuirasses protection and longer reach of their swords."
Only place I've read about anybody complaing about enemy armor is the British at waterloo, not only about the armor but claim the french heavy sword was superior to the british heavy sword.

Sounds like bitching from the British. No other battle have i read hussars, chasseurs or dragoons saying curassiers beeing superior because of armor. Must wounds in cavalry meles were arms,legs and face (like all meles since the dawn of time)

Back armor is nice when running away. And all cav had armor on the head, hussars and chasseurs had a metal skull cap under the bushby/shako you could no more cleave the head of a hussar in twine then a curassiers.

The protection given with back and chest armor was minimal. Yes saved a few lives they did now and then. But again actually getting a kill stab in the chest of someone especially someone on a horse is very hard.

Often cavalry meles were quite bloodless with most casualties the cav received beeing.

1. When routing and enemy chases you.
2. Artillery fire
3. Musketfire

Nr2. Beeing the biggest.
LeatherneckGA
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by LeatherneckGA »

Not going to plagiarize something someone else wrote, but this article pretty well sums up the argument about Cavalry.

Napoleon's Cavalry
Destraex
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Re: How does the cavalry system work?

Post by Destraex »

@ leatherneckGA. That link does not work for me.

It has been suggested to me on another forum that I get the below book and that the differences in the way cavalry charge and engage is much more different than nothing, especially with regard to the way the different weapons systems operate: Large Stabbing Sword, Curved Slashing Sword, Lance. Musket/Pistol... the rare dismounting of dragoons.

http://www.amazon.com/With-Musket-Canno ... 1885119275

Some of the outcomes from our discussions:
(i) Cavalry had specific roles for the most part (although some like dragoons were jacks) and were trained for them. Thus by virtue of the training more than physical differences they were better at those roles. One exception being that heavy cavalry being bigger had better ability to simply knock the enemy over (which they did by charging boot to boot keeping close formation and thus charging slower) and a second one being that light horses are simply more nimble on the turn (not speed) than heavies. The quality of the training was far more important than the physical difference. However there was therefore a difference that should be shown in Scourge of War Waterloo
(ii) Horses (cavalry) needed gaps in a line before they would even contact infantry. I am assuming with cav vs cav that the horses were not afraid.... except maybe in the case of seeing all the pointy sticks the lancers carried. Cavalry once again would not close with pointy sticks even to this day.
(iii) Cavalry will by extremely superior to the infantry (or disordered infantry) in a one on one duel with sword or musket. The cavalryman winning 9.5 times out of 10.
(iv) Breastplate heavies were no more effective in melee than non breast plated opponent cavalry but that the way they charge and the initial impact was what made them effective. Mortality rates were higher amongst the enemy because of the way the heavies stabbed.
(v) Lancers seem to be more effective killers than almost any other cavalry and yet were a tiny percentage of western cavalry. However once in melee it would have been hard for them to defend. Some say they are not really battle cavalry and certainly that cossacks were only good at destroying armies on the march.
There is a lot of argument about whether lancers were good at killing infantry or cavalry. Opinions usually very strong about one but not the other.
(vi) On their own against infantry, cavalry needed to create a gap through gunfire before closing or their horses would simply not finish a charge..... if the enemy had fixed bayonets (does the game allow you to fix bayonets or just assumes this is done?).
(vii) Some cavalry actions were actually simply that of one cavalry unit passing through another and galloping off with a few casualties as they passed through each other.
(viii) Lucky the game is completely moddable. The developers are being advised by there own experts because they admit there expertise lies with the ACW. It is good they are not blind about this. Moddable games though usually do not lend themselves to whole new mechanics and if cavalry act pretty much the same thats going to be hard to correct.
(ix) Cavalry should be able to fire their carbines and pistols in skirmish and the heavier cavalry and dragoons tended to have longer ranged weapons.
(x) Often Heavy Cavalry charged at a trot in close order and these options should be available in game for heavy cavalry but probably not light cavalry.
Last edited by Destraex on Fri May 29, 2015 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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