New review from "Out of Eight"

Let's talk about the issues in converting the SOW engine to handle Waterloo. Ideas, suggestions, feature requests, comments.
sifis172
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by sifis172 »

from what i followed this guy, was angry at some previous
replies.

He* claimed that the game was 80% finished because
it didn't have statistics after a battle. then someone said
that this was a small part, then he said 80 again and blablabla....

in my point of view if you have 1900 subscribers as this guy has
(yes, i checked it :lol: ) you at least owe them an
objective (fair) review.
MikeCK
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by MikeCK »

I have talked to James on several occasions video blog on another website that he used to post on. He's a good guy and means well but he doesn't seem to understand several of the main elements of this game. Back when he reviewed Gettysburg he did not understand that subordinate commanders often do things you don't want them to do and failed to do things that you do want them to do ... And this is by design. He's a good review were generally but I think he misses the mark on SOW games for this reason. Additionally he struggles with the UI which I can certainly understand. I struggle with the UI, the problem being it's extremely difficult to have the control over the entire army that you want without having a complex UI. Not sure anybody else has a better solution so you just have to learn it
HoldTheLine
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by HoldTheLine »

This review illustrates a point that has become clear to me in the short time I have owned SOWGB and SOWWL, and been reading various opinions and discussions. If a player comes to SOW games with little or no knowledge of chains of command, the tactics of 18-19th century formation based warfare, and how armies were organised, that player can not hope to succeed on the battlefield.

If the reviewer is at all familiar with military history from practically any period he would know the difficulties of developing a plan that will not only survive contact with the enemy but can be carried out faithfully by subordinate commanders. Hence yes, they won't always do what you want - just like in real life. Yet we can take command, thus even that complaint is rendered moot.

So without a clear understanding of the SOW approach to command and control and its challenges, without an understanding of basic tactics of maneuver and fire, one would be best entertained with something more along the lines of Napoleon Total War. I'm not casting aspersions at NTW here - I have enjoyed several hours playing it in the past, but did so fully aware it is not intended to be a realistic simulation of horse and musket warfare, but entertainment.

I can understand someone not being happy with the interface - there are few games where I have totally loved the interface. Many game forums are full of complaints about interfaces, it would appear developers can't even please some of the people all the time. Yet most interfaces become more comfortable with practice. As it is, norbsoft have indicated they're open to suggestions and already considering some improvements.
MikeCK
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by MikeCK »

I have always said that SOW is not a battle simulator but is a command simulator . It's meant to simulate what it is like to command an Army,not fight tactics. Therefore you cannot get bogged down in the minutia of Brigade movements or get upset that the brigade is not standing right where you wanted to
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norb
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by norb »

This reviewer gave GB a pretty good review. We appreciate every review and there are always going to be some that don't go our way. Thankfully most are very positive.
Trappeur
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by Trappeur »

A quote of my view of this review as I posted it in his comment section:
"I bought this game and am having a blast with it. It's the best Napoleonic wargame to date. You have to spend more time with it because it's complex. I always use the Ai and have found it to be very challenging because the Ai characters have their own various abilities that interpret how they will execute orders, that is why the take command option needs to be used to assert your aims at important moments. That is why Wellington spent the day micromanaging every detail of of the battle and riding all over the field and why he famously said "..if anyone else had been in command it wouldn't have been a victory". It's a very realistic sim of an actual napoleonic battle and the confusion and chaos that always ensued historically. That's why Napoleon was such a great General and usually prevailed and why this is such a great game. Historically it was extremely difficult to command during this period and this is the only game that models that challenge, it's genre busting. Your only alternative is a Total war style video game, it's easy if your a god and you just click and everyone goes perfectly and everyone can be a great general. Boring! You have to understand what they succeeded brilliantly with to properly review this game. It is deservedly one of the greatest war games ever."
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RebBugler
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by RebBugler »

You nailed it Trappeur, that's what the SOW genre is all about. Sure, we have player control functions, but ya gotta know when to use em', and when to lose em'. It's all about knowing your commanders strengths and weaknesses, then learning to lead them to victory. As someone on the forum recently and acutely pointed out, it's beyond RTS, it's Real Time Command.
Bugles & Flags Gettysburg - Toolbar, Flags, Scenarios, and More...
mitra76
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by mitra76 »

This wasn't one of those.
This is why sometime is good to understand less than half of a spoken english video :laugh:
Errr...would you mind sending me a copy of unitattributes?
I know you're impatient to start to mod :) but don't worry SDK is almost here :)
Last edited by mitra76 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Visit my wargames blog: http://warforgame.blogspot.it/
IronBMike
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by IronBMike »

This review illustrates a point that has become clear to me in the short time I have owned SOWGB and SOWWL, and been reading various opinions and discussions. If a player comes to SOW games with little or no knowledge of chains of command, the tactics of 18-19th century formation based warfare, and how armies were organised, that player can not hope to succeed on the battlefield.

If the reviewer is at all familiar with military history from practically any period he would know the difficulties of developing a plan that will not only survive contact with the enemy but can be carried out faithfully by subordinate commanders. Hence yes, they won't always do what you want - just like in real life. Yet we can take command, thus even that complaint is rendered moot.

So without a clear understanding of the SOW approach to command and control and its challenges, without an understanding of basic tactics of maneuver and fire, one would be best entertained with something more along the lines of Napoleon Total War. I'm not casting aspersions at NTW here - I have enjoyed several hours playing it in the past, but did so fully aware it is not intended to be a realistic simulation of horse and musket warfare, but entertainment.

I can understand someone not being happy with the interface - there are few games where I have totally loved the interface. Many game forums are full of complaints about interfaces, it would appear developers can't even please some of the people all the time. Yet most interfaces become more comfortable with practice. As it is, norbsoft have indicated they're open to suggestions and already considering some improvements.
Good post. It takes knowledge to play these games. People that play TW games and have no understanding of how militaries actually work(ed) will be clueless. That is why these are wargames.
CWGII -> SMG -> SMA -> WNLB -> ANGV -> TC -> TC2M -> SOW
kellysheroes
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Re: New review from "Out of Eight"

Post by kellysheroes »

This guy and most of the WARGAMER forum that left have had it in for Norb ever since he had some issues with his ingame partner when they did 2nd Manassas. I wouldn't believe a word he says since he's already a hostile participant. Wait for other worthy reviews like Tom Chick or if he's still around William Trotter.

There's already a handful over at the Matrixgames site trying to stir up trouble about some of the things that don't look right. They haven't been around the game as long as many of us and they don't know much of what they are talking about. They are trying to say Norb said this and Norb said that when in fact it was someone else.

I look for armchair general to give it a bad rap too. Many of the old wargamer crowd are associated with arm chair general too. Some guy name Bismark is the pak leader I think.
BTW The Wargamer suks nowadays. :) They still talkin bout you Norb. Same ole fools and retards like Son of Montfort and Jarhead and most especially Gusington.
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