Day 1 /Gettysburg

Colonel Dreux
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Colonel Dreux »

No with regards to Longstreet orders to Hood. He denied Hood's idea to move around LRT 3 times. Longstreet said told him we have to follow Gen. Lee's orders and Hood must attack up the Emmitsburg Road. Law's brigade moved towards LRT when it set off and the Texas brigade had to actually move away from Emmitsburg Rd to maintain contact in the movement forward. Whatever plans that had been made, fell apart really quickly. Law's Regimental commanders didn't even know what their objective was.
Hancock the Superb
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Hancock the Superb »

Correct - Everyone in Hood's division was mixed up. Longstreet was told be Lee he couldn't go around LRT, so Hood's division was deployed likewise. Law's brigade, being bottled up by the knoll, moved right as orders from Hood came in, then the mixed up regiments mergered, then counter-orders, then Law taking command...

MADNESS!
Hancock the Superb
Colonel Dreux
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Colonel Dreux »

Yeah, it was a great failure. Hood unfortunately had a shell blow up over head too.
Odox
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Odox »

To the Gentlemen of the Forum, greetings,

I want to thank you Ephrum for beginning this very interesting thread on Heth’s and Buford’s actions on the first day.

Briefly, the battle of Gettysburg has been the focus of a great deal of attention and study for me over the years. Wargaming has been a lifelong hobby of mine, and in fact the first-ever wargame I owned I had the specific thrill of enjoying the (by today’s standards simplistic) game of “Gettysburg” by Avalon Hill (in the late ‘60s I believe); it had rectangular cardboard cutouts on a black on white mapboard. More enjoyable still came the release of “Gettysburg II” on a multicolored hexboard done in elevation gradients like today’s topographical maps. The cardboard chits and mechanics of this game had all the tedium, errata, and accuracy of the sandbox miniatures battles that were quite popular at that time. I believe “Gettysburg II” was released in the mid ‘70s.

Next of course came “Sid Meier’s Gettysburg” around the turn of the millennium, and I have to admit I found this particular game especially engrossing. I was glad to see the hexes go and the power of the computer put to such wonderful uses as to the beauty of the terrain, the impressive display of the individual units, and especially to the resolution of movement and complex combat situations.

And finally came the excellent “TC2M” of which we are all familiar, and I will make mention of the Gettysburg scenario mod I used that was contained within the Community Mod Pack 3, for those that might not be aware of it’s existence.

The events of the battle, especially the events of the first morning, had always piqued my curiosity even as a boy. It inspired me enough to study the battle at a very young age, which began a lifetime of love in me for the study of history. There are no doubt many in the Forum here that can understand this and have had a similar process occur in their own lives.

Although the events of the first day puzzled me for many years, it wasn’t until 1995 that I had the chance to actually visit the battlefield and to visit the areas where these events actually took place. I was in for quite a shock.

I had had the opportunity to live and travel in Europe in my teens, and of course battlements and battlefields spanning hundreds of years were at every turn. I of course paid my respects to each one in turn. I seem to recall it was visiting Bastogne together with General Patton’s grave in Luxembourg being the most moving of my experiences there. I was shocked, however, by the monument to English vanity when I witnessed the towering pyramid built at Waterloo, as a monument to the Duke of Orange losing his arm on a particular spot. I had visited other American Civil War battlefields of course by this time; yet it was obvious to me when visiting Gettysburg that their Northern cousins had inherited this same boorish tendency to erect many and sundry monuments to themselves everywhere. The Park seemed to exist more for the protection of statuary, than for the preservation of hallowed ground into perpetuity, to me. But I digress.

What came as the biggest surprise to me was the exaggerated scale of the many maps and game boards in relation to the actual battlefield, and the area where Heth’s units came in contact with Buford’s was no exception. Game designers seemed to have uniformly presented the various terrain features as serious impediments to movement, which they’re not. With some exceptions, “ridges” and “hills” are no more than hillocks, and offer so little advantage to a unit that is firing “down” from a “ridgeline” gains them no more than a five-foot drop in elevation over a hundred-yard field of fire. Such a gain is negligible.

As to Heth’s actions on the morning of the first, I remember reading from a source that I cannot now recall that Heth in fact formed his brigades into regimental squares at first, having sighted cavalry.

Since we are discussing not only the actual battle but the current game being developed about this battle, perhaps some examination of how the four preceding games have dealt with the Heth v Buford clash would be informative.
In both of the two Avalon Hill games, Buford’s larger cavalry battalion under Gamble begins at the intersection of Chambersburg Pike and Seminary Ridge (sic), while the smaller battalion (Devin) is in a position due north of Gettysburg proper in the farming fields on a minor thoroughfare. Within the hour, Devin moves immediately westward through fields and trees on horseback and attacks the northern flank of Heth’s division in line, while Gamble moves forward and engages him directly, with the remainder of his forces moving to strike Heth’s southern flank. Both sides suffer moderate losses but the sheer weight of the Confederates forces the cavalrymen back. Uniformly, both of Buford’s units suffer moderate losses and retire in order, but at least one of Heth’s regiments (and sometimes half the division) suffers high casualties and is essentially neutralized for the remainder of the game. Herr Tavern is not a difficult objective for the division, and is more or less assured by the arrival of Pender’s forces an hour later.

I spent time studying Sid Meier’s contribution to the wargaming community a great deal. Initially, Gamble (to the south) and Devin (to the north) begin essentially in a line abreast across a broad front on the east side of Herr Ridge (sic). The cavalrymen are quite a potent and aggressive force in this game, and take fewer casualties in skirmish formation even though they are afoot. They are potent enough to force Heth to either stand his ground and await Pender to attempt a flanking move, or force him to attempt to scatter the too-effective fire to his front by driving them off by frontal assault (and accept a sound bloodying as a result). My personal solution to this dilemma when playing the South in SMG was to lure Devin in towards Heth’s front as much as possible initially, then use Pender’s better troops to move rapidly from the north into the rear of first Devin and then Gamble, avoiding engaging them as much as possible, and then encircling them. The cavalry had limited ability to remount while engaged and were in a sense “held”. I chose in this instance to suffer high disorganization, which can be recovered, rather than high casualties. In Sid’s game, the Union First Corps arrives a bit later that it does in Avalon Hill, so the Confederates have no difficulty advancing as far as Herr Tavern or even the eastern edges of McPherson’s Ridge (sic). If I recall, the capture or defeat of the Union cavalry and the rapid movement of Confederates to the vicinity of the Seminary caused the game’s AI to have Hancock hesitate on Cemetery Ridge.

In TC2M’s CMP3 Gettysburg scenario presented the terrain somewhat differently than the three games I’d played previously, and favored whoever chose the defensive. Gamble and Devin began the game much as they did in SMG but were a little less potent and much less aggressive. They seemed to be on more of an “area defense” of the Tavern and tended to only attack when enemy forces attempted to cross the small creek west of Herr Ridge. This was also much more wooded terrain than the previous three games, and provided concealed movement for both sides. Hancock’s elements arrive sooner, too, and there is considerable doubt that an aggressive Heth can achieve and retain the area around the Tavern. Usually the combination of Heth, Pender and Rodes was sufficient to deny the Northerners a tenable position anywhere immediately west of the town. Given the very high quality of the troops of the Union First Corps, I tended towards using maneuver rather than attack to dislodge them. It was an interesting surprise to me to see how the cavalry failed to assist Hancock’s first arrivals and remained “on station” around the tavern. I also discovered here that if the Confederates decided on a waiting game for Pender and Rodes to arrive, that Heth could adopt a very strong defensive position in conjunction with the extra artillery he possesses, and can give the first Union brigades of Cutler and Meredith a serious drubbing.

Well, there you have it, my comparison of four different simulations of this same situation, Morning of Gettysburg Day One. I hope it was informative and perhaps entertaining, and I hope it may serve the designers and contributors some benefit.

Respectfully,

Odox
Last edited by Odox on Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Armchair General
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Armchair General »

Odox wrote:
To the Gentlemen of the Forum, greetings,

I was shocked, however, by the monument to English vanity when I witnessed the towering pyramid built at Waterloo, as a monument to the Duke of Orange losing his arm on a particular spot.
Wellington absolutely hated that monument. He said it ruined his battlefield because to make it, the designers took earth from the actual ridge line that had protected the English during the French cannonade. I think it's quite an obnoxious monument to such a useless and incompetent general.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
O. O. Howard
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by O. O. Howard »

Odox wrote:
The Park seemed to exist more for the protection of statuary, than for the preservation of hallowed ground into perpetuity, to me. But I digress.
While I can also appreciate the desire to see the ground as the soldiers themselves saw it and without all of the statues on it, I actually like the monuments. The ground was there and plays a role, but it didn't actually do anything. It is the men that did something and the monuments tell part of their story.

I guess part of what I like is that the monuments were put there by the veterans themselves. I am less enthusiastic about monuments that have been added more recently, whatever their historical or artistic merit.
Kerflumoxed
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Kerflumoxed »

I, too, began wargaming with Avalon Hill including GB. But, perhaps, the most "intensive" board game was "Terrible Swift Sword." Forget who the manufacturer was, but it was "extreme" in detail! A friend of mine in Peoria, Illinois, set up the game in his basement and, if I recall correctly, it required almost two sheets of 4x8 plywood. The "campaign" game play lasted throughout the summer!

As an aside, Bill worked for the Peoria newspaper and was one of the first "living historians" in that area back in the 60s & 70s. Passed away several years ago from heart disease.

J
Jack Hanger
Fremont, NE
[/size]
"Boys, if we have to stand in a straight line as stationary targets for the Yankees to shoot at, this old Texas Brigade is going to run like hell!" J. B. Poley, 4th Texas Infantry, Hood's Texas Brigade
Hancock the Superb
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Hancock the Superb »

Mr. Odox:

I hate to be rude, but if you'll excuse my bluntness...

1st. At least in TC2M - the ridge the cavalry starts on is McPhearson's ridge - Herr's ridge is the minor one to the front that a minature regiment occupies.

2nd. Hancock arrived on day 2 - you must be thinking of Reynolds

3rd. Pender's division never got on the march soon enough to ever battle Buford.

However, I understand that these games may not be as acurate as our fine Norb has made his... but there are limits to historical accuratness.

A question: Why would Heth form his men into squares? The cavalry they encountered at first was a group of 4 men, then skirmishers were sent out (400 men), if my sources are correct, and swept on. There would be no need for squares with skirmishers already.

However, your view on the evolution of Gettysburg games is very interesting! Just imagine where it will be in 5, 10 years from now!

Good post! (I'll excuse the errors my sources say you made) B)
Hancock the Superb
Odox
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by Odox »

Sincerest greetings my dear Mr Hancock the Superb,

Yes of course you are absolutely right about my mistake regarding Reynolds. Of course it was Reynolds and not Hancock! Ah well, I guess it’s just one more sign the old grey matter just isn’t as reliable as it used to be. Promise me then, that you’ll continue to keep me on my toes about such slipups in the future, won’t you? I fear this might expose me as a rather unreliable opponent in multiplayer in the future!

Yes, I certainly agree that past games certainly weren’t as accurate as they could have been. I’ve also seen quite an increase in scholarship too, amongst my fellow hobbyists, which is all to the good. I think we’ve all enjoyed delving into the history books and have grown in our knowledge appreciably and have increased our general knowledge thereby. It’s impressive the amount of expertise a layperson can grasp through sheer love of the subject.

Fearing that perhaps I was again exhibiting signs of dementia, I did a little online fact-checking about the possibility of any of the Confederates forming squares in Buford’s presence during Day One, and have only found this:

“We have a gentlemen in the audience, Dave Martin, and I respect Dave a great deal. I wrote an article in February, they're still writing letters about it. About forming a square at Gettysburg. I believe it's still happened. Even after reading Dave's new paper on it. I do believe that Wayne's brigade was slowed up by the Union Cavalry in front of him and they formed lanes. Whether it happened or not, I believed something was in front of Wayne that slowed them up and until someone can tell me otherwise, who or what slowed up Wayne's brigade, why Wayne's brigade did not give any support at all to Parins' brigade that was attacking the Union Infantry at the Seminary itself. Then I'm going to still believe that the Union Cavalry forced Wayne's brigade to stop and reform - to form against a mounted cavalry charge. Where that took place I believe is west of the seminary on the south side of the Fairfield-Haggerstown Road.”

This excerpt comes from a lecture by one Gary Kross entitled, “The Cavalry at Gettysburg” given at the park September 14, 1995. In it he’s referencing a Mr Dave Martin as to the possibility of infantry squares being formed at Gettysburg, and Mr Kross apparently agrees with Mr Martin. The reasons for Mr Kross’ few typos (i.e. “Parin” rather than Perrin, “Haggerstown” rather than Hagerstown, plus one or two more in the rest of the text) may be attributable to someone else having transcribed his remarks. I am especially baffled to his reference above to a “Wayne”. I’m unable to find anyone by that name in either army present that day. The closest I came come is General Lane of Pender’s division, and the above would seem to indicate that it might not have been Heth but part of Pender’s division that were observed forming squares, and against Buford’s cavalry. This certainly makes the issue confusing, minor though it is. Perhaps someone has information that a Confederate brigade on the first day subsequently came to be commanded by an officer named Wayne?

I found the above article here, but don't quite know how to embed links as yet:
www.roberteleecwrt.com/present/kross.html

This can’t be the original source which had me thinking Confederate units under Heth formed square that morning however, as my recollection goes much further back than 1995!

Nevertheless thank you so much Mr Hancock the Superb and all. I appreciate your comments very much.

Warmly,

Odox
O. O. Howard
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Re:Day 1 /Gettysburg

Post by O. O. Howard »

Hancock the Superb wrote:
2nd. Hancock arrived on day 2 - you must be thinking of Reynolds
Hancock my friend, are you sure about this? I believe Hancock did arrive on the field on the 1st. Oh.. perhaps you mean Hancock's corps. Of course, I have no problem if you want to give all of the credit for organizing troops on Cemetery Hill to Howard. :laugh:
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