Why is the Bayonet being shortaned?

[Shirkon]

BOSTON wrote:

Kerflumoxed wrote:

Speaking of bayonets...wouldn't it be nice to have that command, "Fix - BAYONETS!", be available before ordering an infantry charge? There is something rather inspiring to hear several dozen bayonets clanking against the steel of the barrel as they are attached!

Under the present system, I suppose that bayonets are always "fixed", even when marching.

J

Read this paragraph last night from Harry Pfanz's, The Second Day, pg. 80-1; I was at Meade's HQ, the roar of battle was louder and grew nearer; Hill was threatening the center, a cloud of dust could be seen down the Baltimore Pike. Had Stuart suddenly gained our rear? There were anxious contenances around the cottage where the flag of the CIC was flying. Officers gazed with their field glasses. "It's not cavalry, but infantry," said one, "There is the flag, it is the Sixth Corps." We could see the advancing bayonets gleaming in the sun-light. Faces which a moment before were grave became cheerful. It was an inspiring sight.

Hope that sheds some light on marching with bayonets!

BOSTON

I can believe it happened occasionally but I don't see it as a common occurance. Having bayonets fixed during battle would make it much harder to load those muzzle loaders. It would deifintely slow the rate of fire. I can see it for marching in a parade, because it would be an inspiring sight, but not in the battlelines unless ordered. It's possible that the first brigade of the 6th Corps had bayonets fixed because they weren't sure exactly what they were marching into. For all they knew they would be going right into hand to hand combat.

[Kerflumoxed]

A couple of reasons to avoid loading and firing with a bayonet.

First, when you ram the cartridge, the ramrod is flexible and easily moves in a "wobbly" manner. Have seen many instances of "fresh fish" placing their hand above the bayonet and ramming with a resulting wound in the flesh of the hand as they forced the charge down the barrel, bleeding on the gun, ground and uniform. One quickly learns to keep the hand on the ramrod at a level below the point of the bayonet...and the NPS folks don't like the sight of blood, especially before a crowd of visitors! :woohoo: Does look impressive, though! :laugh:

Second, the extra weight on the end of the muzzle can cause more rapid fatigue and subsequent less accuracy...especially when you have an officer who delays the "FIRE" command and you are standing there trying to balance that 12 pounds of wood and steel in a perfect horizontal position!

Third, and most important to cleaning the weapon, is the powder residue that rapidly accumulates on the bayonet itself. What a pain!

As an aside, stories are often spun about the CW soldier using the bayonet as a candle holder. I suspect they only did that one time after trying to clean the damn wax from the socket before an inspection or trying to attach the bayonet to the muzzle!

J :woohoo:

[BOSTON]

You guys are brutal, however, practicable. :ohmy: I agree that it would be pita to load and fire bayoneted. As far as the game goes, When does the bayonet go on for a charge, or receive a charge? or is it on all the time as far as the game is concerned? As to marching, the weight of the bayonet is always on you, be it on your gun, or slung on your hip. I have two German made bayonets/w-scaboards circa WWI, I tell ya I would not want to be lugging these suckers around all the time, they're more than twice as long than anything I had when in the service.

BOSTON

[Kerflumoxed]

Boston...the weight of the bayonet is less noticeable when carried on the hip than when carried on the end of the rifle...and it is a lot safer, too!

J

[BOSTON]

Kerflumoxed wrote:

Boston...the weight of the bayonet is less noticeable when carried on the hip than when carried on the end of the rifle...and it is a lot safer, too!

J

Tell that to Sixth Corps that just marched up from Maryland. Beyond that the only thing you would see on the end of my rifle was a rubber.

[Kerflumoxed]

BOSTON wrote:

Kerflumoxed wrote:

Boston...the weight of the bayonet is less noticeable when carried on the hip than when carried on the end of the rifle...and it is a lot safer, too!

J

Tell that to Sixth Corps that just marched up from Maryland. Beyond that the only thing you would see on the end of my rifle was a rubber.

Rubber????? Oh, you must be referring to a "French envelope"! :woohoo:

J

[BOSTON]

Kerflumoxed wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

Kerflumoxed wrote:

Boston...the weight of the bayonet is less noticeable when carried on the hip than when carried on the end of the rifle...and it is a lot safer, too!

J

Tell that to Sixth Corps that just marched up from Maryland. Beyond that the only thing you would see on the end of my rifle was a rubber.

Rubber????? Oh, you must be referring to a "French envelope"! :woohoo:

J

I'll mail one to ya! :laugh:

BOSTON

[2nd Kentucky]

As an aside, stories are often spun about the CW soldier using the bayonet as a candle holder. I suspect they only did that one time after trying to clean the damn wax from the socket before an inspection or trying to attach the bayonet to the muzzle!

I have done this before,well my uncle. It might have not been the most historical, but when you only have a candle without something to hold it I believe it is a good idea. If you place the bayonet in the ground at an angle the wax drips off the end without even touching the bayonet, but just for good measure, we put a piece of cloth under the candle to protect the socket. B)

[BOSTON]

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

I'm pretty sure repeater infantry units did'nt have bayonets, never had luck to have a regular infantry unit do a charge when out of ammo.

I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

Read that the Berdan sharpshooters (2 regiments, 1st and 2nd) were assigned to Ward's brigade. In order to qualify to be in the regiments you had to put 10 consecutive rounds within 50 inches of a bullseye from 100 + 200 yards distance using a caliber .52 Sharps rifle. Some companies used a special target Sharpe rifle. Did not read any reference to bayonets.

BOSTON

[Shirkon]

BOSTON wrote:

O. O. Howard wrote:

BOSTON wrote:

I'm pretty sure repeater infantry units did'nt have bayonets, never had luck to have a regular infantry unit do a charge when out of ammo.

I thought the Spencer did have a bayonet. The Sharps Rifle (breach loader but not repeater) did. I am almost certain that the Spencer did. I think the front sight is designed to take a more-or-less standard socket bayonet.

Read that the Berdan sharpshooters (2 regiments, 1st and 2nd) were assigned to Ward's brigade. In order to qualify to be in the regiments you had to put 10 consecutive rounds within 50 inches of a bullseye from 100 + 200 yards distance using a caliber .52 Sharps rifle. Some companies used a special target Sharpe rifle. Did not read any reference to bayonets.

BOSTON

I did a fast internet check and found this. Sharps/Spencer Sword bayonet

Almost sounds like the same situation that was used with the old British Baker rifle.