Help with moving the artillery

[GShock]

While I enable and disable mods for testing, I am now playing the sandbox mode (Div vs Div) and I noticed that the problem with being unable to move the artillery is consistent because it just doesn't happen in the tutorial but also in sandbox.

I presume this has something to do with unit/section being attached or not (I have no idea what the difference is, I always try to move the commander of the arty battery and he just DOESN'T).

Perhaps I click something wrong (with courier mode on full level is quite possible)... but what happens is that even if I give a NO ORDER to such commander, when I next tell him to move his battery he just doesn't.

For the records, Pender in this sandbox had 4 batteries and in 1 hour playing they never moved from the initial spot where they engaged the enemy regardless of how many times I tried.

Can someone briefly explain why this happens and HOW (detailing click by click!!!!) to move the artillery units?
Thanks

[Davinci]

GShock – I might be missing something here but, I only play in the SandBoxThing Open Play Battles, and I don't have a problem with moving the Artillery, either by clicking , or by using the courier system.

The only other thing that I can think of would be that the Divisional Commander is over-riding your movement orders.

I play with four Divisional Commanders, and two Corps Commanders , in all of my games, and sometimes when I forget to TC of the higher ranks, even if I don't plan of moving them, they will still send the units to a different part of the field.

Try setting the Take Command on all of the ranks above brigade level, and then try moving the artillery units by clicking, and then by courier.

BTW – Set the courier settings to – by side – or something similar to that, I'm not in the Windows Platform right now, this should allow you to issue courier messages from any Leader, whether higher rank or not.

davinci

[GShock]

Well in the DIV vs DIV sandbox, I am Pender, the DIV leader and of course the highest in command, excepting AP Hill (IIRC) who's basically doing nothing.

What I noticed is that I keep trying to give the NO ORDERS but the strat orders keep being overridden and I don't know why, they keep going back to hold at all costs. When the strat order is on hold at all cost, it's impossible to move the arty and this is exactly what happens in the div tutorial just like I noticed today with the sandbox.

Any suggestion?

[Davinci]

GShock – I just tried moving my artillery while it was engaged with enemy units, two things happened.

1) If the artillery leader was TC – the units would stop firing and move to the new position.
2) If the artillery leader was not TC the leader would immediately stop due to having a line-of-sight on the enemy units, I guess telling him he stand and fight.

I also switched the artillery to the Hold-at-all-cost – but the TC will over-ride this setting.

Basically, I have no idea why your units are doing what they are doing when we have the same game with the latest patch.

You probably already know this but make sure that AP.Hill is also TC – even if you do not plan on moving him, but as far as I know the highest Command is always on TC by default.

Hopefully, Little Powell, or Marching-thru-Georgia will have some insight into your questions.

davinci

[GShock]

So in other words you're saying that as long as AP Hill is UnTCed the AI controls my uppermost ranking general and my orders are overridden but that only seems to happen with artillery. Infantry and Cavalry just go wherever I want them to, the problem with artillery is that once it starts shooting I can't move it any longer... at least not with the highest level of courier gaming mode.

I'm going to try TCing AP Hill first and then AP Hill *and* each AI Arty leader now... that is... as soon as I find out where's the conflict in mods that makes my game crash.

[Marching Thru Georgia]

GShock wrote:

What I noticed is that I keep trying to give the NO ORDERS but the strat orders keep being overridden and I don't know why, they keep going back to hold at all costs. When the strat order is on hold at all cost, it's impossible to move the arty and this is exactly what happens in the div tutorial just like I noticed today with the sandbox.

Assuming that the arty battery is under your direct control and not detatched, here is the set of orders I use to move the battery while it is engaged. This is one courier order.

1. No orders
2. Move your battery 400 yds forward (just an example)
3. Face your unit in this direction (Not really necessary unless they are changing fronts)

If you use the command map, 'Move your unit to this map point' for #2, you will then need to use 'Battery in line' for the last order, (always make it the last one). Otherwise only the commander will move and the battery will stay behind. It's one of several bugs that was never fixed in the patch.

They will then limber and move to their new location. If they get whithin 200 yds of the enemy while they are moving, they will unlimber and defend themselves with canister. Also, if they need to move a long distance, say 800-1000 yds. they will sometimes go about half the distance and unlimber and start firing if they are in view of the enemy. I don't know why that happens, but it does ~40-50% of the time. It does not happen for shorter distances though.

Hope that helps.

[Davinci]

GShock – If the highest ranking officer is not TC then as far as I know he can still send the men to different parts of the field, or stop them from moving, but if they are TC they will not send the men anywhere.

Also – once the battle starts you must TC of any leader that you want to stay put, or move to another location.

Basically, it works something like this, if the unit is not TC, and the unit is not under fire, they will move to where-ever you want them to.

But, once the unit is under-fire, they will stand and fight and refuse to move due to taking casualties.

Now, if the unit is engaged but not taking fire, and they are not TC, they will move to a new position. This will not work if the units are taking casualties.

davinci

[GShock]

MTG posted a quite detailed procedure and I am gonna follow it and try.
It would be nice to have a zoom with the standard and command maps so you could pinpoint the location you want the arty to go to. IIRC the move order via single courier does not encompass the use of the command map but takes advantage of specific map locations (move to this barn or to that hill etc) and that's another must (but i might be wrong).

I tried again to move the arty BEFORE looking at this thread and what I saw is that with a no order arty leader, via courier it doesn't work but if I move Pender (which is me, the Div leader) very close to the arty, the courier is not needed. IN THIS CASE, MOVE HERE and then FORM LINE will make the arty limber then move.

So it's a courier issue. The orders work but not via courier. It's not me, it's the game.

I can tell the order is taken via courier all the same because the strat order goes to the place I clicked but the leader and his arty just won't move but as I said, if I move the div leader close to the arty then I can move it just like I was without couriering mode and in this case the exact procedure I use to move the arty with couriers (and failing) will do the job.

Needs a bit of polishing... there's still a lot of work to do with this game but it's a beauty.

In this test all my arty leaders were TCed and in NO ORDER fashion. Some of them reverted to hold to the last, but in any case I was unable to move any but the one I got very close to. The strat orders are still confusing (shall I move first and then issue order or issue order first and then move?) I mean everything is very confusing because of the way it was designed so it's even difficult to find out whether a feature works or not with the couriering as it is.

You can tell with this "incident" with the guns. Without couriering they will move, with couriering they won't. Simple as that. In any case, AP HILL can't be TCed (sandbox, 1st OOB, div vs div) so he's not the cause of TCed arty leaders keeping the hold to the last even though I switched them to NONE.

For the records, 4 batteries of artillery (16 guns) caused about 80 kills in 1 hour of combat. All the batteries used up all their shrapnel ammo first. Needless to say this is quite unsatisfactory. It feels like we're still at the starting point with this ammo type but the others are starting to work. No cannister rounds were shot.

Luckily we, the rebs, prevailed.

[GShock]

I tried and it looks like the arty will move only when not engaged and by using the simple command map.
By courier orders (courier page) it won't move despite following the procedure indicated by MTG in detail).

I went into another div vs div battle. I have 1 arty in good spot and 3 out of position. I tried in all possible ways to move them. I even TCed all the three of them, got them in NO ORDERS status but to no avail.

What can I say guys, I don't want to start a flame war but it seems to me that the fact arty stops to engage and can't be moved is just silly.

We are talking of 1500+ meters distance of engagement. This means you will NEVER be able to move the artillery as soon as the engagement starts. If you read back at what I said, the system does allow it to be moved when NOT using couriers regardless of it being under fire.

Hence this has got to be a bug of some sort, at least I hope so. Meanwhile Graham, the arty in good spot in 30 minutes at 300 yds distance killed 12 enemy soldiers.

I have complete trust that Norb will find a solution. The game is brand new, barely 1 yr old but if we consider most of these problems come from the pretty much older TC2M I am a bit discouraged.

When on the offensive, if you can get to 300yds you kill 12 men with the arty. 75% of your arty from far beyond, unable to move at all is completely useless.

I mean... hell... never mind. I have some sort of 1% of me that still thinks it's me doing something wrong... but when I look at how easy it is to move inf and cav and how terribly impossible it seems with art I get totally discouraged, really.

[GShock]

As totally expected in 5 consecutive tests with CORPS vs CORPS battle, I handled countless arty batteries without a single issue which confirms the problem being in the courier and not in the buttons (or in me).

So, no need to TC/UnTc and, regardless of the arty battery being engaged or not, the unit will MOVE when the order is issued, provided the couriering system is totally disabled.

This was TOTALLY expected.