What would have been so shameful in Battle?

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Hi.

Does anyone know what would have been so shameful a thing to warrant charges to be placed against "Hart’s Battery (Dallas Artillery)" 1861-1862(Second Arkansas Field Battery 1863)?

Here is a small tidbit I was reading...

At the two-day Battle of Pea Ridge (Elkhorn Tavern) on March 7-8, 1862, the Yankees captured two of the battery’s guns, along with its colors. For reasons that are still unclear, the battery was then disbanded "for shameful conduct in the presence of the enemy."

I was looking over the flags posted by Gunship24, and a post made by "Damned Black Hat" http://www.norbsoftdev.net/index.php?op ... =124#33023

Anyone know?

[born2see]

Hard to say but they wouldn't have been the first.

[Turbotay]

I'm guessing it had to do with what they did right before the guns and flag was taken by the enemy. If a majority of them ran off/threw down weapons/etc. that would be considered "shameful conduct". Not to mention, there are few things more shameful than for a unit to have its colors captured by the enemy. One time when i was still in Basic Training, my platoon's guidon (colors) got left somewhere by the guidon bearer. It was returned to the Drill Sergeants by someone in another platoon. To show us just how big a deal that was, our DS's made us march everywhere behind a mop, instead of our guidon for a couple days.

--
Muleskinner

[Jack ONeill]

Turb,

Marines or Army?

Jack

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Hi.

I must be coward then, because if I had a choice to save a human beings life, and protect the platoons colors I would grab the other person, and carry them out of there, to damn with the colors because I think I would rather die for another human being than for a damn old flag. The flag can be replaced, a human beings life cannot.

Mind you like you said if the flag bearer left it behind because he forgot, that's a totally different matter, and being reprimanded is proper.

Later!

[born2see]

You know I debated whether to comment on this but I'm going to. I never read a post I didn't have an opinion about. I've never been in the military let alone combat so you vets jump in, please. I think it was a different time back then. I'm not talking about the courage of the soldiers but the significance associated with the colors in battle. I know soldiers would take the colors from a fallen comrade and the enemy would target the color bearers. I don't think we take battle flags into combat anymore but it doesn't diminish what they stand for. I suspect if we did, the actions would be the same.

Just my opinion...

B

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Howdy Doody...

Your absolutely correct, it was a different time back then, and colors/flags do, and did matter. I was never in combat, never seen it, smelled it, or even heard it. I was taught that the Mission 1st, Men second. If you succeed in your mission this brings honor to you, and your team, your company, the Army, and last your country.

I have always thought that carrying the flag into combat was, or at least in part a matter of pride only, and to have your honor based on who is in possession of it is...well skewed.

I don't know, I could be very wrong on the meaning of colors, and their importance.

Later.

[born2see]

mikesla wrote:

to have your honor based on who is in possession of it is...well skewed.

But don't you think that's a 21st century perspective? I'm sure 150 years from now some of the things WE hold dear won't be viewed in the same light as we do today.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

mikesla wrote:

to have your honor based on who is in possession of it is...well skewed.

But don't you think that's a 21st century perspective? I'm sure 150 years from now some of the things WE hold dear won't be viewed in the same light as we do today.

Hi Again.

Absolutely...no doubt about it. If I grew up back then who knows what I would believe in, there really is no way of knowing. I suppose it's always been about what can you give men which they can fight for, and believe in, so if giving, and instilling in them to follow a cat turd on a stick, and keeping it close brings honor, then yes, you will have men following that cat turd all over the countryside if you give them a strong enough belief, and honor in it.

But, you are right, times have changed. It's pretty wrong for me to try to make, or judge their personal beliefs. It's like trying to figure out someones motives for their actions when they are no longer able to defend themselves, or who are unwilling to speak.

Cheerio.

[Damned Black Hat]

The colors were considered to be the soul of the regiment, to serve as a part of the color guard was among the highest honors to have in a regiment. Other than unit pride, the colors did serve a very important role to the regiment: communication. In the thick of the battle, you could not always hear your orders, but you most likely could see your colors. So if the men did not hear an order to advance, but saw the colors go forward, they knew to follow the colors. Losing the flag not only meant shame and disgrace, but the loss of a vital tool of communication.