Valve says Linux is more viable for games than Windows 8

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Before I post this, Valve is finely going to get what they deserve for what they have done to the gaming industry. What Steam/Valve has done is no different than you having to ask permission from ON-STAR to start your car.

... What gets me, Linux is Steams answer? Good luck with that Valve, you will fail miserably, and I mean fail!

Now you see the ugly face of Steam, instead of them working to update their Steam Client, they are officially tell you gamers who love Steam, and rely on it to play your games that you can go to hell because they won't support Windows 8.

Oh, and if you are already confused about Windows 8, try your hand at Linux, I beg you to give it a go.

I have, and I just shook my head at how difficult it can get just setting up your video drivers properly, and forget about solid stability as far as Wine is concerned. The list of Games for Linux are.. well not all that many as far as today's games are concerned. You can still get a copy of Doom, Doom 2, and some older titles (I know I'm being a rag about this particular part, but you get my meaning all the same).

Mind you, I like Linux, always will.

Last Note: I am running Windows 8, and I have hundreds, and hundreds of games, I have installed over 60 of them right now, and all of them work, even the older games you would think would not have a chance of working, but they do without flaw. So Steam is lying to you, that is what they will do when they see the shift of control is slipping from them, and it's all about stopping Microsoft from entering into the an area of the gaming industry that Steam has horded, and guarded so closely.

SPOILER: SHOW

Video game publisher and digital-distribution giant Valve continues to take it to Microsoft’s Windows 8 operating system.

At the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a convention for Linux contributors in Denmark, Valve software engineer Drew Bliss gave a presentation about the company’s push to bring the Steam digital-distribution platform to the open source operating system. He told the audience that Linux is a more viable gaming platform than Windows 8.

This echoes Valve chief executive officer Gabe Newell’s previous comments on the recently released Windows 8 OS. Newell claimed Microsoft’s latest update to its PC platform is a “catastrophe” that will cause a lot of PC developers to exit the market. The Valve executive and other developers believe Windows’ new app store poses a threat to the open nature of personal computers. Microsoft is taking a walled-garden approach by enforcing full control over which apps make it into its Windows 8 store. Consumers can still install Steam and other software, but many see this move as the first step toward locking down the PC for Microsoft.

Newell called the new focus on Linux a “hedging strategy” if Windows 8 turns out as bad as he suggests. Bliss used similar language.

The software engineer provided the crowd with more information about Valve’s progress with Steam for Linux.

The Steam client runs well on Ubuntu (a popular and user-friendly version of Linux), and several third-party developers approached Valve about getting their games on Steam for Linux. Going forward, Valve will release its new internally developed games on Linux as well as the traditional operating systems. As for copyright protection, publishers and developers will have to implement that themselves.

Bliss also noted that Linux has everything Valve needs. The OS has all the modern technologies required to run today’s games. The final Steam for Linux client does not have a firm release date, but Bliss did say it’s coming soon.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve ... ZKF48vd.99

[Flanyboy]

Before I post this, Valve is finely going to get what they deserve for what they have done to the gaming industry. What Steam/Valve has done is no different than you having to ask permission from ON-STAR to start your car.

... What gets me, Linux is Steams answer? Good luck with that Valve, you will fail miserably, and I mean fail!

Now you see the ugly face of Steam, instead of them working to update their Steam Client, they are officially tell you gamers who love Steam, and rely on it to play your games that you can go to hell because they won't support Windows 8.

Oh, and if you are already confused about Windows 8, try your hand at Linux, I beg you to give it a go.

I have, and I just shook my head at how difficult it can get just setting up your video drivers properly, and forget about solid stability as far as Wine is concerned. The list of Games for Linux are.. well not all that many as far as today's games are concerned. You can still get a copy of Doom, Doom 2, and some older titles (I know I'm being a rag about this particular part, but you get my meaning all the same).

Mind you, I like Linux, always will.

Last Note: I am running Windows 8, and I have hundreds, and hundreds of games, I have installed over 60 of them right now, and all of them work, even the older games you would think would not have a chance of working, but they do without flaw. So Steam is lying to you, that is what they will do when they see the shift of control is slipping from them, and it's all about stopping Microsoft from entering into the an area of the gaming industry that Steam has horded, and guarded so closely.

SPOILER: SHOW

Video game publisher and digital-distribution giant Valve continues to take it to Microsoft’s Windows 8 operating system.

At the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a convention for Linux contributors in Denmark, Valve software engineer Drew Bliss gave a presentation about the company’s push to bring the Steam digital-distribution platform to the open source operating system. He told the audience that Linux is a more viable gaming platform than Windows 8.

This echoes Valve chief executive officer Gabe Newell’s previous comments on the recently released Windows 8 OS. Newell claimed Microsoft’s latest update to its PC platform is a “catastrophe” that will cause a lot of PC developers to exit the market. The Valve executive and other developers believe Windows’ new app store poses a threat to the open nature of personal computers. Microsoft is taking a walled-garden approach by enforcing full control over which apps make it into its Windows 8 store. Consumers can still install Steam and other software, but many see this move as the first step toward locking down the PC for Microsoft.

Newell called the new focus on Linux a “hedging strategy” if Windows 8 turns out as bad as he suggests. Bliss used similar language.

The software engineer provided the crowd with more information about Valve’s progress with Steam for Linux.

The Steam client runs well on Ubuntu (a popular and user-friendly version of Linux), and several third-party developers approached Valve about getting their games on Steam for Linux. Going forward, Valve will release its new internally developed games on Linux as well as the traditional operating systems. As for copyright protection, publishers and developers will have to implement that themselves.

Bliss also noted that Linux has everything Valve needs. The OS has all the modern technologies required to run today’s games. The final Steam for Linux client does not have a firm release date, but Bliss did say it’s coming soon.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve ... ZKF48vd.99

You do understand that the reason Valve is upset is because Windows 8 is going to heavily promote the Windows Store... Windows has basically told Valve that their going to war with them and understandably Valve is upset. Windows is closing down what use to be an open platform and limiting choice and Windows gets a 30% cut off of EVERYTHING sold in the Windows store. Windows 8 will likely put Valve and all other software distribution channels out of business. Valve isn't working with Windows 8 because it's not possible really for Valve to exist in a platform that totally replaced the ability to have 3rd party software for game buying with a mandatory storefront.

It's not that Valve isn't working to update to Windows 8, Microsoft has made sure there is no room for companies like Valve IN WINDOWS 8.

I don't really use Steam but Microsoft is limiting choice for consumers with Windows 8 and ruining down the platform.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Before I post this, Valve is finely going to get what they deserve for what they have done to the gaming industry. What Steam/Valve has done is no different than you having to ask permission from ON-STAR to start your car.

... What gets me, Linux is Steams answer? Good luck with that Valve, you will fail miserably, and I mean fail!

Now you see the ugly face of Steam, instead of them working to update their Steam Client, they are officially tell you gamers who love Steam, and rely on it to play your games that you can go to hell because they won't support Windows 8.

Oh, and if you are already confused about Windows 8, try your hand at Linux, I beg you to give it a go.

I have, and I just shook my head at how difficult it can get just setting up your video drivers properly, and forget about solid stability as far as Wine is concerned. The list of Games for Linux are.. well not all that many as far as today's games are concerned. You can still get a copy of Doom, Doom 2, and some older titles (I know I'm being a rag about this particular part, but you get my meaning all the same).

Mind you, I like Linux, always will.

Last Note: I am running Windows 8, and I have hundreds, and hundreds of games, I have installed over 60 of them right now, and all of them work, even the older games you would think would not have a chance of working, but they do without flaw. So Steam is lying to you, that is what they will do when they see the shift of control is slipping from them, and it's all about stopping Microsoft from entering into the an area of the gaming industry that Steam has horded, and guarded so closely.

SPOILER: SHOW

Video game publisher and digital-distribution giant Valve continues to take it to Microsoft’s Windows 8 operating system.

At the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a convention for Linux contributors in Denmark, Valve software engineer Drew Bliss gave a presentation about the company’s push to bring the Steam digital-distribution platform to the open source operating system. He told the audience that Linux is a more viable gaming platform than Windows 8.

This echoes Valve chief executive officer Gabe Newell’s previous comments on the recently released Windows 8 OS. Newell claimed Microsoft’s latest update to its PC platform is a “catastrophe” that will cause a lot of PC developers to exit the market. The Valve executive and other developers believe Windows’ new app store poses a threat to the open nature of personal computers. Microsoft is taking a walled-garden approach by enforcing full control over which apps make it into its Windows 8 store. Consumers can still install Steam and other software, but many see this move as the first step toward locking down the PC for Microsoft.

Newell called the new focus on Linux a “hedging strategy” if Windows 8 turns out as bad as he suggests. Bliss used similar language.

The software engineer provided the crowd with more information about Valve’s progress with Steam for Linux.

The Steam client runs well on Ubuntu (a popular and user-friendly version of Linux), and several third-party developers approached Valve about getting their games on Steam for Linux. Going forward, Valve will release its new internally developed games on Linux as well as the traditional operating systems. As for copyright protection, publishers and developers will have to implement that themselves.

Bliss also noted that Linux has everything Valve needs. The OS has all the modern technologies required to run today’s games. The final Steam for Linux client does not have a firm release date, but Bliss did say it’s coming soon.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve ... ZKF48vd.99

You do understand that the reason Valve is upset is because Windows 8 is going to heavily promote the Windows Store... Windows has basically told Valve that their going to war with them and understandably Valve is upset. Windows is closing down what use to be an open platform and limiting choice and Windows gets a 30% cut off of EVERYTHING sold in the Windows store. Windows 8 will likely put Valve and all other software distribution channels out of business. Valve isn't working with Windows 8 because it's not possible really for Valve to exist in a platform that totally replaced the ability to have 3rd party software for game buying with a mandatory storefront.

It's not that Valve isn't working to update to Windows 8, Microsoft has made sure there is no room for companies like Valve IN WINDOWS 8.

I don't really use Steam but Microsoft is limiting choice for consumers with Windows 8 and ruining down the platform.

You are right, it's a long held monopoly which Steam has had for so many years. You also say that Microsoft is limiting user choice, what in the name do you think Steam has done? Either buy the latest game only on Steam, or, or... what? What choices? You can't even make a choice to install a Steam game without Steam.

Microsoft is not limiting the users choices, but the opposite. Who cares about Microsoft getting 30 percent of anything anyway? That is their business, and I don't purchase product based on the profit margin of a company.

Running down the platform (Steam), they are running down a complete OS, and lying through their teeth about it. I don't feel one once bad about telling the truth about steam, and if telling the truth is running in your opinion down a company so be it. Steam is lying about what they are saying about Microsoft, and if it wasn't for Microsoft in the first place (outside of MAC, and Linux) you most likely would not be using what you may very well be benefiting from right at this moment which is most likely a Microsoft OS.

Steam at this moment in time is wasting resources working on Linux client instead of working on a solid refit of the Steam Client engine for Windows 8 so they can scare people into not buying Windows 8 which in my opinion is far more damaging than me slamming Steam, that should tell you something about the company, and how they are thinking about their client base.

Anyway, that is all I have to say about this matter.

[Flanyboy]

Before I post this, Valve is finely going to get what they deserve for what they have done to the gaming industry. What Steam/Valve has done is no different than you having to ask permission from ON-STAR to start your car.

... What gets me, Linux is Steams answer? Good luck with that Valve, you will fail miserably, and I mean fail!

Now you see the ugly face of Steam, instead of them working to update their Steam Client, they are officially tell you gamers who love Steam, and rely on it to play your games that you can go to hell because they won't support Windows 8.

Oh, and if you are already confused about Windows 8, try your hand at Linux, I beg you to give it a go.

I have, and I just shook my head at how difficult it can get just setting up your video drivers properly, and forget about solid stability as far as Wine is concerned. The list of Games for Linux are.. well not all that many as far as today's games are concerned. You can still get a copy of Doom, Doom 2, and some older titles (I know I'm being a rag about this particular part, but you get my meaning all the same).

Mind you, I like Linux, always will.

Last Note: I am running Windows 8, and I have hundreds, and hundreds of games, I have installed over 60 of them right now, and all of them work, even the older games you would think would not have a chance of working, but they do without flaw. So Steam is lying to you, that is what they will do when they see the shift of control is slipping from them, and it's all about stopping Microsoft from entering into the an area of the gaming industry that Steam has horded, and guarded so closely.

SPOILER: SHOW

Video game publisher and digital-distribution giant Valve continues to take it to Microsoft’s Windows 8 operating system.

At the Ubuntu Developer Summit, a convention for Linux contributors in Denmark, Valve software engineer Drew Bliss gave a presentation about the company’s push to bring the Steam digital-distribution platform to the open source operating system. He told the audience that Linux is a more viable gaming platform than Windows 8.

This echoes Valve chief executive officer Gabe Newell’s previous comments on the recently released Windows 8 OS. Newell claimed Microsoft’s latest update to its PC platform is a “catastrophe” that will cause a lot of PC developers to exit the market. The Valve executive and other developers believe Windows’ new app store poses a threat to the open nature of personal computers. Microsoft is taking a walled-garden approach by enforcing full control over which apps make it into its Windows 8 store. Consumers can still install Steam and other software, but many see this move as the first step toward locking down the PC for Microsoft.

Newell called the new focus on Linux a “hedging strategy” if Windows 8 turns out as bad as he suggests. Bliss used similar language.

The software engineer provided the crowd with more information about Valve’s progress with Steam for Linux.

The Steam client runs well on Ubuntu (a popular and user-friendly version of Linux), and several third-party developers approached Valve about getting their games on Steam for Linux. Going forward, Valve will release its new internally developed games on Linux as well as the traditional operating systems. As for copyright protection, publishers and developers will have to implement that themselves.

Bliss also noted that Linux has everything Valve needs. The OS has all the modern technologies required to run today’s games. The final Steam for Linux client does not have a firm release date, but Bliss did say it’s coming soon.
Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve ... ZKF48vd.99

You do understand that the reason Valve is upset is because Windows 8 is going to heavily promote the Windows Store... Windows has basically told Valve that their going to war with them and understandably Valve is upset. Windows is closing down what use to be an open platform and limiting choice and Windows gets a 30% cut off of EVERYTHING sold in the Windows store. Windows 8 will likely put Valve and all other software distribution channels out of business. Valve isn't working with Windows 8 because it's not possible really for Valve to exist in a platform that totally replaced the ability to have 3rd party software for game buying with a mandatory storefront.

It's not that Valve isn't working to update to Windows 8, Microsoft has made sure there is no room for companies like Valve IN WINDOWS 8.

I don't really use Steam but Microsoft is limiting choice for consumers with Windows 8 and ruining down the platform.

You are right, it's a long held monopoly which Steam has had for so many years. You also say that Microsoft is limiting user choice, what in the name do you think Steam has done? Either buy the latest game only on Steam, or, or... what? What choices? You can't even make a choice to install a Steam game without Steam.

Microsoft is not limiting the users choices, but the opposite. Who cares about Microsoft getting 30 percent of anything anyway? That is their business, and I don't purchase product based on the profit margin of a company.

Running down the platform (Steam), they are running down a complete OS, and lying through their teeth about it. I don't feel one once bad about telling the truth about steam, and if telling the truth is running in your opinion down a company so be it. Steam is lying about what they are saying about Microsoft, and if it wasn't for Microsoft in the first place (outside of MAC, and Linux) you most likely would not be using what you may very well be benefiting from right at this moment which is most likely a Microsoft OS.

Steam at this moment in time is wasting resources working on Linux client instead of working on a solid refit of the Steam Client engine for Windows 8 so they can scare people into not buying Windows 8 which in my opinion is far more damaging than me slamming Steam, that should tell you something about the company, and how they are thinking about their client base.

Anyway, that is all I have to say about this matter.

I don't think you understand that with the Windows 8 store people will literally NEVER download Steam and not even know of it's existance.

Steam hardly holds a monopoly. I use Gamers Gate for tons of my games, there is another newer platform out there called Storm Powered which is also very similar to Steam. Very few games are exclusive to steam but Windows 8 will put all these companies out of business most likely.

That's fine but what I don't like is how its going to basically make developers get in the Windows store or go under, what that means for publishers like Matrix could be very bad in the long term. Steam making a Steam client for Windows 8 seems a bit silly because no one is going to be downloading clients once this market matures, the Windows store will replace them all, even if Steam tries to support Windows 8, people likely would never download it if it was there. At least that's what Windows hopes for.

Windows is corning the software purchase market, and I don't like that at all.

[Michael Slaunwhite]

Hi.

Steam hardly holds a monopoly. I use Gamers Gate for tons of my games, there is another newer platform out there called Storm Powered which is also very similar to Steam. Very few games are exclusive to steam but Windows 8 will put all these companies out of business most likely.

All MS has done is take it's OS for the PC, Tablet, and yes even the XBOX, and have combined it to be connected, and pretty much stay in touch which is really something if you sit back, and think about it.

That's fine but what I don't like is how its going to basically make developers get in the Windows store or go under

That isn't true at all. Gaming companies, or developers can do whatever they wish. The only way that would happen is IF Microsoft has forced people to be online at all times, and stay connected to it's cloud servers for synching, but that is not the case. You do have a choice to create an Online Account, or an Offline Account.

Gaming companies still can pick, and choose who will promote their product. Microsoft has offered another way to sell their product, and nothing more than that. If NSD for instance doesn't want to go with Microsoft as it's main vendor then they can do what they did, and choose Matrix, or Slithern for all it's promotional needs (thanks by the way for doing that NSD). You are not being forced to do anything against your will here, and neither are the developers.

The Windows store will replace them all, even if Steam tries to support Windows 8, people likely would never download it if it was there. At least that's what Windows hopes for.

Do you really believe this? To do what you are saying Microsoft would have to convince everyone (triple A companies, indie developers, and everyone else for that matter who sale a product) too only sell their product through the Microsoft's store ONLY for that too happen. Microsoft would be out of their minds to say "if you don't buy the software (games, or Utils) from our store, you will not be able to install it in Windows 8"... This just will not happen. Steam is just upset because they see Microsoft as a real competitor.

Windows profits greatly from Steam being who they are, and what they represent. Why in the name would Microsoft cripple something that has people buying the Microsoft OS's? That just does not make any sense what-so-ever.

Steam, and Windows (Steam wouldn't even be where they are now without Microsoft, and the game developers) are still going to be around, and once Steam realizes that Windows 8 is just another great OS, Steam can get off the pot, and stop acting like a spoiled little brat spouting doom for the gaming industry.

Windows is corning the software purchase market, and I don't like that at all.

Microsoft has not cornered anything, they make a pretty good product (excluding Windows 3.1, Windows ME, and Vista), Developers, and triple A companies jump on board because 80 percent of people, and business's have the Microsoft OS installed is in my opinion brilliant.

If Steam, and other companies feel like that MS is going in that direction, then take MS too court. Netscape took MS to court because of I.E, Netscape won, and no longer exist as a viable asset.

I'm sure Steam will do that if they can prove what the doomsayers out there are saying.

As it stand for me personally where Windows 8 is concerned (I only use the offline feature for a user account), Windows 8 is a brilliant OS, and people will see how great this OS really is. I have been using it for the past 2 days now (no longer installed in VMWare), and I am very impressed by it. Software that has given me problems in Windows 7 are not causing me issues in Win8, it's fast, and very stable (as it should be), and also very easy to use. Since I created an Offline account, I have no need to be connected to the xlive feature or store (I took the icons off the system, and even blocked those in the firewall).

The xlive feature still has to be installed for games which you may have purchased in the past that use the live feature (of course you can still create an offline profile for the live aspect of the game as per usual), you just have to download the latest live client/sdk.

I don't see anything here with this OS that is threatening, or will endanger the gaming industry.

[RebBugler]

MS is rooted in piracy and domination, check out it's history. It initially pirated Apple's OS, tweaked it, and called it Windows. It hoodwinked IBM into leasing it's stolen and poorly functioning look alike OS and eventually dominated the market with the motto of quantity over quality. Mac was left in the dust with a superior OS and products, but poor competitive business policies and practices.

Mike has made some good points, but too many shallow observations that MS thrives on that fuels it's monopolizing quests. I may be wrong, but I trust what Flanyboy is observing, mainly because of the MS reputation of ruthless paths toward dominance.

So, I ask Flanyboy for possible solutions we consumers and gaming enthusiasts can pursue to help thwart MS with their new moves with OS8...or are we helpless to stop this monopolizing monster?

[Michael Slaunwhite]

possible solutions we consumers and gaming enthusiasts can pursue to help thwart MS with their new moves with OS8...or are we helpless to stop this monopolizing monster?

Only way is too stop using Microsoft's Operating Systems, and start using MAC, or Linux...

OR

Since profit is King, everyone one would have to ask, or demand that all developers/programmers to start creating the games from here on out for the MAC, and/or for the Linux based systems, and for the PS3.

If people can do that, then you have a fighting chance on stopping MS.


Here is what will happen. Microsoft will be taken to court by Valve, with a few other respected companies. Microsoft will lose, and they will pay out whatever is imposed upon them by the courts. Valve owners are happy (Valve's owners pocket a few Million from the transaction) along with the others.

Microsoft adds a few tweaks, then all is well again, no one is crying anymore, Valve is happy (thinking that they have done something great for the gaming industry all the while the gamers out there are no richer for what valve has done), then out of nowhere Valve announces the day after winning the case against Microsoft that they will be releasing a new, and improved Steam client that will allow gamers to really experience a better world while using Windows 8, and Microsoft goes on to develop Windows 9, Windows 10 etc... Nothing will change. Microsoft has been in court so often that is shameful, but in the end Microsoft always wins as long as the developers create games, and tech software for Microsoft's OS's.

Look to the past, when they stopped making games for NES, NES died, etc, etc...

Oh one more thing I forgot to mention... Odd that Valve is going on about Microsoft's Game store in Windows 8, so he is going with Linux.... OH Come on, Unbuntu has it's own Game, and software store in it's own OS so that blows the crap out of the claims of how Windows 8 will ruin the gaming industry, and take over the game world, and force people to only buy games, and software from Microsoft.... Please, Valve just hates Microsoft, and don't want them playing in their sandbox.

[Flanyboy]

MS is rooted in piracy and domination, check out it's history. It initially pirated Apple's OS, tweaked it, and called it Windows. It hoodwinked IBM into leasing it's stolen and poorly functioning look alike OS and eventually dominated the market with the motto of quantity over quality. Mac was left in the dust with a superior OS and products, but poor competitive business policies and practices.

Mike has made some good points, but too many shallow observations that MS thrives on that fuels it's monopolizing quests. I may be wrong, but I trust what Flanyboy is observing, mainly because of the MS reputation of ruthless paths toward dominance.

So, I ask Flanyboy for possible solutions we consumers and gaming enthusiasts can pursue to help thwart MS with their new moves with OS8...or are we helpless to stop this monopolizing monster?

Not sure I would agree with you there. Even Steve Jobs didn't view MS as stealing Mac OS. There's a really great interview with Jobs in 1995 before he went back to Apple when Jobs talks about the development of the GUI OS and he mentions that it was a generally held consensus that it was the right way to go, everyone knew it needed to be done, Xerox did it first and failed, then Mac did it, then Windows tagged along aftwards.

Jobs was critical of Windows lack of creating a quality experience as he put it but he never implied they stole anything, in fact he said it was Apple's fault for letting Windows get the lead because Apple lost its way. He said Windows did a great job not screwing up the opportunities which Apple gave it.

It's a really interesting interview with Jobs just months before he would return to Apple at a time when even he didn't think he could save Apple (he actually said that in the interview). You also see how Jobs really wasn't concerned about having the best hardware but was more concerned about the user experience and you can see a lot of insight into why he did the things with Apple that he did.

I'll address the other points later.

[RebBugler]

MS is rooted in piracy and domination, check out it's history. It initially pirated Apple's OS, tweaked it, and called it Windows. It hoodwinked IBM into leasing it's stolen and poorly functioning look alike OS and eventually dominated the market with the motto of quantity over quality. Mac was left in the dust with a superior OS and products, but poor competitive business policies and practices.

Mike has made some good points, but too many shallow observations that MS thrives on that fuels it's monopolizing quests. I may be wrong, but I trust what Flanyboy is observing, mainly because of the MS reputation of ruthless paths toward dominance.

So, I ask Flanyboy for possible solutions we consumers and gaming enthusiasts can pursue to help thwart MS with their new moves with OS8...or are we helpless to stop this monopolizing monster?

Not sure I would agree with you there. Even Steve Jobs didn't view MS as stealing Mac OS. There's a really great interview with Jobs in 1995 before he went back to Apple when Jobs talks about the development of the GUI OS and he mentions that it was a generally held consensus that it was the right way to go, everyone knew it needed to be done, Xerox did it first and failed, then Mac did it, then Windows tagged along aftwards.

Jobs was critical of Windows lack of creating a quality experience as he put it but he never implied they stole anything, in fact he said it was Apple's fault for letting Windows get the lead because Apple lost its way. He said Windows did a great job not screwing up the opportunities which Apple gave it.

It's a really interesting interview with Jobs just months before he would return to Apple at a time when even he didn't think he could save Apple (he actually said that in the interview). You also see how Jobs really wasn't concerned about having the best hardware but was more concerned about the user experience and you can see a lot of insight into why he did the things with Apple that he did.

I'll address the other points later.

My my, how history has changed. Maybe Jobs didn't want to sound like sour grapes, but the skuttlebutt back then was exactly how I stated. There was even a docudrama produced that really played up the outright thievery by Gates. He and Jobs were comrades of that era, exchanging ideas and such regarding the computer technology of the age. Jobs loaned out his mac prototype to Bill to show it off. Gates got his software guru, eventual partner, (name?) to study it and rebuild it as Gates envisioned to make it appear as his own work. When Gates released it Jobs was enraged but couldn't prove anything because Jobs OS, the first MAC OS, was not published or patented...this ended their comradeship, the rest is history, or, er, rewritten history. :unsure:

On a darker note, has Gates gone so far as to pay off the truth. :unsure: Billions in wealth have been known to do such...ya know. With Jobs gone, we'll never know.

[Flanyboy]

To be fair to Gates, he did lend/settle (depending who you talk to) Apple 150 Million to help it stay afloat when it was in dire straights and basically went out of business.

Gates and Jobs also never per what I've seen hated each other as you speak. Maybe there was some animosity at times but they clearly got over it by the end and they met regularly all the way up until Jobs death.

I'm skeptical of the outright theory aspect because it sounds a lot like typical consistory theory talk, also Apple has an incredibly loyal following who will vilify anything not Apple and thus its hard for a fair assessment, and most importantly if Jobs was intending to be diplomatic he sure didn't hold back on Apple itself. He was incredibly negative and hostile to Apple, pertaining to how he was kicked out the first time. Maybe he felt some of Windows was stolen but lets face it, he thrashed Android for being "Stolen" he never did the same publicly for Windows. He also was vehement in his disdain for the way Apple treated him and of his CEO who kicked him out.

In the interview
He was more dismissive about Microsoft than anything. He said it was not nearly as good of a product as it could have been and never would have gained the traction it did if Apple hadn't let it. Further he said they were years ahead of Microsoft and Apple basically kept running the same OS year after year not doing anything with it allowing Microsoft to catch up. It wasn't like he viewed it as some thievery that let Microsoft win because Microsoft was YEARS behind Apple by the time Apple was already selling computers with an OS. So that time line doesn't appear to fit with the idea your proposing.

Also the only info I can find other than he said she said pertaining to Microsoft copying Apple has more to do with Office than it does the OS itself. Jobs readily admitted that Xerox gave everyone the blue print for what to do, and what not to do and that everyone knew it needed to be a GUI, it was just a matter of the execution of it.

I think this is a very tough thing to really get an accurate assessment over. Software might be written 1000x different ways and yet people still get accused of theft. It's a messy situation where everyone borrows from each other and concepts and ideas are generally held so its hard to say whats really new and innovative and whats stolen. I have great respect for Jobs and also for Gates, thieving or not they were both pioneers. I don't view Microsoft or Apple as evil corporations but in many ways they are hypocritical about what they really designed vs concepts they borrowed and what not as any companies in the tech world are.