Infantry charges successfully closing too often..?

[Anderson]

Hi,

So far I haven’t seen a charge by infantry fail to close with the target enemy regiment.

This surprises me as I believed that the musketry coming from defending infantry lines often did prevent charges by attacking infantry. They would hesitate, lose their morale enough so that it ended with a disorderly line formation and “fire at will..” by the attacking infantry. The charge would lose momentum at say 50m when they saw up close the volley they would receive at forty meters.

As losses accumulated as a result of defending artillery, defending skirmishers if not successfully driven off by attacking skirmishers, and then at under 120m growing musketry by the defending line formation... the attackers morale would sometimes fall so far that if ordered to charge they would no close with the defenders.

Of course, all depends on quality of troops, loses and such. But this fate even befell the Old Guard famously as we all know. I know you guys know all this better than I do.. this is just a heads up because I have not seen a charging infantry loose their nerve and stop..

Am a huge fan, I knew a Napoleonic version of Scourge of War good but this even better than expected. Just a heads up for those who know, to check if they think the morale check threshold for musketry/accumulated losses stopping a charge, causing the attackers to lose their nerve, is set too high.

All the best,
Kip.

[Saddletank]

I had two column attacks in my last battle halt and retreat, I also saw a defending line break and run just before contact as well, so it is happening. The latter event was very satisfying and is something I'd never seen before in the older GB game. It occurs more if the troops involved are not fresh of course. Fatigue, losses and other reasons for lowered morale will cause units to decline to cross bayonets with the enemy more frequently.

[Bloody Bill]

I would say having a charge stopped by musket fire is completely rare. In column I moved one at a time on purpose and made contact every time. Same with GB musket fire is not strong enough to stop moving units.

I took a KGL line set it to volley and when a French unit was at point blank range loosed the volley dropping close to 30 guys with over 600 shooting. A lot of fire power tests have been made and I would say 90% of the time fire power is not enough to avoid melee.

[voltigeur]

I have to agree, seeing most charges or collisions ending up as melees so far.

Also seeing a large number of surrenders after melee which strikes me as a bit over the top (would expect retreat/routs to be the norm for the loser)

cheers

[mitra76]

If the morale of charging unit is not already in a danger zone is difficult the charge can be stop by the amount of losses which can be inflicted in the short space of charge, also usually the troops were stop from the fire before start the charge, especially if they could not fire or have already used their fire and the defender didn't give up.

The Guard at Waterloo, stopped by own decision and start to reply to fire frontally and laterally (they were in square) without start a charge.

The defender gives up before the melee when the strenght rapport of context (so considering also the amount of bonus and other factor is very unfavourable to him) or failed the morale test of his loop turn.

[Bloody Bill]

If the morale of charging unit is not already in a danger zone is difficult the charge can be stop by the amount of losses which can be inflicted in the short space of charge, also usually the troops were stop from the fire before start the charge, especially if they could not fire or have already used their fire and the defender didn't give up.

The Guard at Waterloo, stopped by own decision and start to reply to fire frontally and laterally (they were in square) without start a charge.

The defender gives up before the melee when the strenght rapport of context (so considering also the amount of bonus and other factor is very unfavourable to him) or failed the morale test of his loop turn.

I can almost guarantee that I can take a battalion and walk it into contact with an enemy line unit shooting it the entire time. Musket fire power does not stop a moving unit. Gettysburg was and is the same way. Melee, melee, melee is all you need. Make your columns and move in firepower will not stop you.

We don't know if the guard advanced in square or not. British accounts say they were in column and so do some French. Eye witness reports were very different. In RL yes musket fire can break an advance we know this because there are thousands of accounts of this during the Napoleonic wars. In the game you will make contact with an enemy shooting you over open ground why you walk 90% of the time.

[JamesLL]

Also seeing a large number of surrenders after melee which strikes me as a bit over the top (would expect retreat/routs to be the norm for the loser)

I totally agree with this. Its more natural reaction to for the looser to rout. Surrendering during a melee is probably more dangerous than just running for it. I've also seen cavalry surrender against infantry which seems improbable due to their fast means of escape.

[mitra76]

also usually the troops were stop from the fire before start the charge, especially if they could not fire or have already used their fire and the defender didn't give up.

I meant historically not in the game. In game is only the morale check which can break the advance if forced from the player.

[Anderson]

Hi,


It’s good to see that sometimes attacking/advancing/charging troops are stopped by fire. But as with most here I didn’t think it happens near often enough.

As attacking troops near the enemy line and casualties start to climb the chance of the attacking troops refusing to advance or charge when ordered to by the AI or a player who has taken command should increase.

Also, the chances of troops who are advancing or changing suddenly halting their advancing should also increase. And then refusing to go further and starting to fire at will from whatever formation they are in. Including column. Charging troops who suddenly halt probably should break for the rear. But often advancing troops should just stop and fire.

I get the impression this was a very common way attacks slowed to stop. Even if just temporarily on some occasions. Indeed even skirmishers could sometimes slow their advance in this way. Force attacking column is stop and fie for a while then collect themselves and advance some more. This is the officers and NCO s restoring order and then pushing things forward again.

This is the biggest problem I have seen with the current version of Waterloo.

Great game, with the odd tweak and editor added will be a really outstanding game no sane developer would even try to compete with .

All the best,
Kip.

[Gunfreak]

Still less mêlée then in gettysburg, where I've had whole divisions anialate each other in massive charge and counter charges.